OPINION

Lekota's stand against race-ultras: Full transcript

In answer to question of whether descendants of immigrants should be dispossessed MPs shout "yes!" (19 Feb 2018)

Transcript of address by COPE President Mosiuoa Lekota in the debate on President Cyril Ramaphosa’s State of the Nation Address, Monday, 19 February 2018

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Hon President, congratulations on your elevation ... [Interjections.] ... to the high Office.

Hon President ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, the member has not even started speaking! Order, please!

Mr M G P LEKOTA: We also add our voice of appreciation for you announcing the century of Nelson Mandela and Albertina Sisulu.

Mr H P CHAUKE: Deputy Speaker!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Sorry, hon Lekota. Please take your seat. Yes?

Mr H P CHAUKE: On a point of order, Deputy Speaker. We did not hear hon Lekota when he was congratulating the President. His voice was very low. We thought he could raise his voice properly.

Mr M G P LEKOTA: I think the President heard me, Deputy Speaker.

We also add our voice to the appreciation of you announcing the century of President Mandela and Albertina Sisulu. These are two of the giants of our history, from whom we have learnt a lot, and to whom we are extremely appreciative.

Last Thursday, we joined you at when you took the Oath of Office. You announced the following to the Chief Justice: that you would obey, observe, uphold and maintain the Constitution.

The next day, Friday, in the evening, you announced in your speech that would expropriate land without compensation. The question that confronts us is that this Constitution – if it is this Constitution that you were swearing allegiance to – says at section 25 that none may be deprived of their property. It also says that where expropriation happens, it must be with compensation.

The question therefore that must arise is whether you took your oath to this Constitution, or to another constitution. [Interjections.] Because, Sir, we must raise the question. [Interjections.] We must raise the question. If you are ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Lekota, please take your seat. Yes, what is the point of order?

Dr M Q NDLOZI: Deputy Speaker, I wanted to ask if hon Lekota has been paid by fascist of the nationalist party to come and squash the land programme of our people. Let’s not ... [Inaudible.] ... very dangerous.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, let’s not ...

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Comrade Chair ... [Inaudible.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable ...

Dr M Q NDLOZI: What alternative do you have for us to get the land back? [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member ... [Interjections.]

Dr M Q NDLOZI: What did you go to Robben Island to do? [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable ... [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Something is wrong with this guy. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Ndlozi ... [Interjections.]

Dr M NDLOZI: What were you doing on Robben Island? [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Ndlozi ...

Dr M Q NDLOZI: What were you doing on Robben Island?

Mr M G P LEKOTA: This time is ... [Inaudible.] I’m now left with 45 ... [Inaudible.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Ndlozi ... [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: This is sabotage. This is one forty-five! I haven’t spoken for a minute, and this thing shows one forty-five left. [Interjections.] This is sabotage! I’ve been watching this thing! [Interjections.] [Laughter.] It’s only ... I haven’t spoken for a minute, and this thing has one minute forty-five left! No, something must be corrected. You must correct this! You give me four minutes and, in no time, this thing jumps to one forty-five! It can’t be like that. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Lekota ...

Mr M G P LEKOTA: No, it cannot be like that, Sir.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable ... [Interjections.] Hon member ... [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: You cannot say that I’ve spoken for a minute. Four minutes have gone down to one minute forty-five! [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Lekota ... [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: No, Sir! [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Lekota, let’s explain it to you, Sir. As soon as anybody rises on a point of order, the clock is stopped. [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: But it says ... [Interjections.] [Inaudible.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Even as you are talking now, it has been stopped. It hasn’t moved.

Mr M G P LEKOTA: No, but I have not spoken for a minute. Now I’m left with one forty-five.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no. Hon Lekota ... [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: How can it be one forty-five? Anybody who is honest ... This is not one forty-five left. I can’t be left with one forty-five. [Interjections.]

Mr J MALEMA: Deputy Speaker ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes. Please take your seat. What’s your point of order, hon member?

Mr J S MALEMA: No, we want to offer him extra minutes on condition he says the right things about land. [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: No, no no!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no! Hon Lekota, that clock only works ... As you notice now, it’s stopped when you speak.

Mr M G P LEKOTA: I could not have spoken for ... [Interjections.] [Inaudible.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, you can’t be sitting there complaining, hon Lekota. Please proceed. [Interjections.] Hon Lekota?

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Deputy President, I have to raise this question ... [Interjections.] Are you going to take the properties of the great-grandchildren of the Indian indentured labourers who came here? [Interjections.]

Mr H P CHAUKE: Order, speaker! [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Whose properties are you to take? Are you going to take the properties of the French Huguenots and German refugees who came here running away from religious wars in Europe? [Interjections.]

HON MEMBERS: Yes!

Mr H P CHAUKE: Order! Point of order! [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Whose properties are you going to take? [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What’s your point of order? Hon Lekota ... [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Is it going to be the properties of the great-grandchildren of the slaves that came from the Malay Peninsula ...

HON MEMBERS: Yes!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Lekota? Hon Lekota ...

Mr M G P LEKOTA: ... and from the Phillipines?

HON MEMBERS: Yes!

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Whose properties are you going to take? [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Lekota, please take your seat.

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Please, you must let us know.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What’s your point of order?

An HON MEMBER: The point of order, Deputy Speaker, is that we have just been addressed ... there was a state of the nation address not long ago by the President of the country. We don’t have the Deputy President in the House here. Hon Lekota must just get up to date with the processes.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, that’s okay! That’s okay. Take your seat, hon member. It has been corrected. Take your seat. Go ahead, hon Lekota.

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Hon President, I apologise for that. I do want to ask these questions. Are you going to take the properties of the great-grandchildren ...

HON MEMBERS: Yes!

Mr M G P LEKOTA: [Interjections.] ... of the Indians who came here ... [Interjections.] ... to grow sugar cane in Natal? [Interjections.]

HON MEMBERS: Yes!

Mr M G P LEKOTA: And if so, why? [Interjections.] Are you going to take the properties of the people who arrived here as slaves from the Malay Peninsula ... [Interjections.]

HON MEMBERS: Yes!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, order! [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: ... whose leader, Abdurahman Moturu ... [Inaudible.] ... was laid to rest on Robben Island? [Interjections.]

HON MEMBERS: Yes!

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Whose properties are going to be taken? [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Lekota ... [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: And who are you going to give this ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Lekota, there’s a ... Hon Shenge wants to take your ... What’s the point of order, hon member?

Prince M G BUTHELEZI: Deputy Speaker, I was just saying that I can hardly hear what Mr Lekota is saying. I find what my colleagues are doing quite distasteful. It is not democratic. Why are you here? If he’s talking out of his turn or talking through his head, let’s hear that and then respond to it. I just want to hear. I have nothing against you being angry about what he is saying, but I would like to hear the full thing.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes. Thank you. Can we please work with that? I think hon Buthelezi is correct. Go ahead, hon Lekota.

Mr J S MALEMA: But the answer is still yes. You must stop asking questions. We have given you the answer. Yes! [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Malema, no one gave you the authority to do that. Go ahead, hon Lekota.

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Well, Deputy President, in that case ... [Interjections.] ... are you going to ... [Interjections.] Are you going to amend the Bill of Rights ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It’s the President, hon member.

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Are you going to amend the Bill of Rights, comrade President, so that South Africa must know that this Constitution is no longer relevant under your leadership? [Interjections.]Are you going to take the Bill of Rights? [Interjections.] Are you going to take our rights under the Bill of Rights? [Interjections.] We really need to know that reply, and we cannot not ask that question today. We ask it and we want to know. [Interjections.]

Mr N S MATIASE: Deputy Speaker!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Lekota ...

Mr M G P LEKOTA: If you are going to give this ... [Interjections.] [Inaudible.] ... something, you are going to the land to our people. Now, please tell us who is not “our people” in this country. [Interjections.] Who is “our people”? Who is not “our people”? Who is ... [Interjections.]

I’m not one of you!

Mr N S MATIASE: Deputy Speaker ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What are you rising on, hon member?

Mr M G P LEKOTA: It’s a matter that the President will have to answer. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Matiase? Hon Lekota!

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Who is not “our people”?

Mr N S MATIASE: Deputy Speaker! [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Who is “other people”? [Interjections.] This Constitution says all of us are South Africans and all of us have the same rights. [Interjections.] So, leave the howlers aside.

Mr N S MATIASE: Deputy Speaker! [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Lekota, please take your seat. [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Who are you going to give the land to? You take it from whom? [Interjections.] And to whom are you going to give it? [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Lekota ... [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: We want your answer. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Take your seat. What are you rising on, hon member?

Mr N S MATIASE: I want to check if Mr Terror Lekota can take a question.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Lekota?

Mr M G P LEKOTA: I am asking the questions. You can answer them! [Laughter.] [Interjections.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please be seated, hon member.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: President, if you are going to take the land, are you going to give it to the Basotho, or are you going to give it to which section of the population? [Interjections.]

Mr M L W FILTANE: Point of order, Chair. [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Who is “our people”? I must ask you ... [Interjections.] [Inaudible.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon members, allow the member to finish? [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Who is “our people”? Who is not “our people”? [Interjections.]

Mr M L W FILTANE: Point of order, Chair. [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: The National Party used to say, some are Europeans and other are non-Europeans. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Lekota ...

Mr M L W FILTANE: Point of order, Chair. [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Now, who is “our people, and who is not “our people”? [Interjections.] I want to know that. [Interjections.] No, my time is not up! [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Lekota, just hold on. What’s that point of order, Sir?

Mr M L W FILTANE: Thanks for the opportunity, Chair. I’ve always said that your sessions are always keeping us awake. Thank you! [Laughter.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Lekota, please continue.

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Sir, I still want to know whether the President will take the properties of the great-grandchildren of the French Huguenots ...

HON MEMBERS: Yes!

Mr M G P LEKOTA: ... the German refugees ...

HON MEMBERS: Yes!

Mr M G P LEKOTA: ... all of these people who came here.

HON MEMBERS: Yes!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your time has expired now, Sir.

Mr M G P LEKOTA: The people that came to Kimberley to dig for diamonds.

HON MEMBERS: Yes!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, your time has expired.

Mr M G P LEKOTA: The people that came here to dig for gold.

HON MEMBERS: Yes!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Lekota, we are switching off your mic! [Interjections.]

Mr M G P LEKOTA: [Inaudible] ... because their roots lie outside of here.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Lekota, your time has expired, Sir. [Interjections.]

Source: Unrevised Hansard.