Madam Speaker, let me deal with statements made by four hon members - statements made respectively by Skosana, Meshoe, De Lille and Van Dyk - relating to a situation in Zimbabwe. 

Let me start with the observations by the hon De Lille. Indeed, we would like to confirm that the situation is, as she describes, namely that the problems in Zimbabwe must be solved by Zimbabweans. There can't be any regime change from anywhere outside of Zimbabwe .

In the history of Zimbabwe , it's important to recognise that Lancaster House Agreement was facilitated by outside agencies. Zimbabweans have to knuckle down and resolve their own problems. The position of the government in South Africa has consistently been - and this is the view of all of SADC - that we must encourage Zimbabweans to solve their own problems. And that is the most that we can do because the solutions have to be durable and sustainable and the decisions have to be carried by Zimbabweans into perpetuity. That is the essence of democracy! And that is the gist of the statement that President Mbeki presented to the Heads of State in Lusaka last week.

Now, in dealing with this issue, it's important to recognise that Zimbabweans are not going to cross the border and come into South Africa illegally then register themselves as refugees. They will melt into the South African community and become like us because they are our neighbours, they are of our blood and we share the same language with many of them. So, they aren't going to seek to be set apart from us.

This is the reality. The number of Zimbabweans who arrive at Beit Bridge or in Musina and register as refugees can be counted on one hand. But that doesn't accord with the number of Zimbabweans here. Our commitment must be to ensure that Zimbabweans will solve their issues. That is why all of the players in Zimbabwe need to be sitting around the table.

Let me turn then to what the hon Skosana raised because indeed it is a very important issue. How do we get the Zimbabweans to leave out the responsibility of rebuilding an economy that clearly is severely stressed now?

The point about Zimbabwe is that we have been working with them for a very long time but understanding that the decisions have to be [made by] Zimbabweans [themselves] about their economic management. We can't sit this side of the Limpopo and decide what kind of economy the Zimbabweans must have. It must be inclusive. They must understand what the issues are. They must get the prices to work and they must drive the changes.

We can't commit financial resources of taxpayers elsewhere. Zimbabweans must take the decisions and then the deal can be struck. So, there is an inter-linkage between what the hon Skosana and the hon De Lille have raised. You need democracy, you need [the] people of Zimbabwe to take decisions about their own country.

For those who don't know, I am going to ask that President Bush recruits them and send them to Iraq . Then they will understand about the regime change. We will send them there. We will send the hon Van Dyk and all of the loud mouths there so that they will understand what regime change is about.

If you want democracy, hon Meshoe, you must understand that - I suppose that he has to act through the voices of the electorate - people decide the government that they want and the leaders that obtain in the southern African regions are the choice of the people.

The fact that you and the others are not on this side of the House [may not be a] manifestation of [an] act of God's will but it certainly is a manifestation of the will of the electorate.

Note: This is an edited version of the unrevised Hansard of Trevor Manuel's remarks in parliament on Tuesday August 21 2007.

They were made in response to member's statements on Zimbabwe by M B Skosana, IFP; Patricia de Lille, ID; Kenneth Meshoe, ACDP; and, Manie van Dyk, DA.