#StateCaptureInquiry: 'I have nothing to fear' - Gordhan
20 November 2018
Public Enterprises Minister Pravin Gordhan says his detractors should appear before the judicial commission of inquiry into allegations of state capture and "say their piece under oath".
Gordhan, who is testifying at the commission for a second day, told inquiry chairperson Deputy Chief Justice Raymond Zondo that he was not "accountable to bullies".
"As far as I'm concerned, I'm accountable to citizens of this country, then Parliament and my political organisation, but I'm not accountable to bullies," he said.
"Those making allegations outside or inside this forum should, under oath, come to this commission and say what they have to say.
"They must subject themselves to cross-examination. I appeared before Nugent, under oath, and also here and have nothing to fear. I am not a commodity for sale, and the Guptas learned that too."
Gordhan was referring to the commission of inquiry, headed by retired Judge Robert Nugent, into operations at the South African Revenue Service.
The public enterprise minister also told the commission about the day former minister of finance Nhlanhla Nene was removed from his position on December 9, 2015.
He said Nene's removal had an impact on ordinary South Africans. He said at the time, the rand depreciated from R14.59 to the US dollar on the evening of December 9, to R15.90 on December 11.
"The decisions we make affect ordinary South Africans. The concern shown by different interest groups that weekend was therefore justified," he said.
While he was overseeing the Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, he was summoned to a meeting with Zuma.
He said ANC deputy secretary general Jessie Duarte and then deputy president Cyril Ramaphosa contacted him and told him that he would be asked to do something by the president and he should not refuse.
He said during his conversation with Zuma the former president indicated that he wanted him to take up the finance minister job and said: "I'm the one that can calm the markets."
He said he was asked to return to National Treasury even though Des van Rooyen, the MP appointed by Zuma in Nene's place, "seemed to be fine", according to the former president.
Gordhan also told the commission that there was no position for former finance minister Nhlanhla Nene at the Brics bank.
"There was no commensurate position to minister of finance for Nene at the Brics bank. I was involved in setting up the bank, I would know," he said.
Update:
Ntlemeza was central to state capture project – Gordhan
Former Hawks boss Major General Berning Ntlemeza was central to the state capture project, the judicial commission of inquiry into allegations of state capture heard on Tuesday.
Gordhan told the commission that before his budget speech in February 2016 an envelope was hand-delivered to National Treasury at Ntlemeza's insistence.
The envelop contained 27 questions addressed to him from the Hawks, demanding that they be answered.
He said the questions related to the high-risk investigations unit within South African Revenue Service (SARS) from years before and charges against him relating to that unit, which had been filed by former SARS commissioner Tom Moyane in May 2015.
Gordhan said he agreed to meet with former president Jacob Zuma to show him the correspondence between himself and the Hawks as well as the questions he had been sent. He said he asked Zuma whether he was aware of the Hawks' action against him and whether he agreed with it.
But, he said the former president flipped through the pages and said he would speak to minister of police, at the time Nathi Nhleko.
Distraction tactics
Gordhan said he received no information from the former president in this regard.
He also told the commission that there was a series of events that were part of a campaign to force him to resign so the capture of the National Treasury could continue.
Advocate Paul Pretorius, who heads the inquiry's legal team, asked Gordhan about how those questions from the Hawks were leaked to the media the day after the budget speech, and what it suggested to him.
He said the tactics were to "distract" him from his duty, adding that he was angry about the intimidation and harassment going on.
"Throughout the period between February and about October/November, the one narrative that I would hear was that, 'This is all about forcing you to resign' and comrades within the ANC and colleagues within Cabinet and people outside, within civil society and the South African Communist Party (SACP) and so on, would say 'Don't resign. You have a job to do, do your job. And if he doesn't want you there, then he must fire you'."
Gordhan added that there was clearly some "orchestration" going on and questioned the motives behind the formulation and leaking of the questions.
"I was angry, particularly because of the importance of the budget speech and budget day for the country as a whole. Now who wants to be disrupted the week before, when we finalise the documents and speech? What mindset informs the delivery? Expecting I would resign while delivering the speech? [I] never quite understood," he said.
