THURSDAY, 21 AUGUST 2014
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS OF NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
__________
The House met at 14:10.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
QUESTIONS - PRESIDENT
Start of Day
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY
Question 1:
[Q1. Ms J L Fubbs (ANC) to ask the President of the Republic:
(1) Given that South Africa pursued the Growth Employment and Redistribution plan and the Accelerated Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa, (a) what is the relationship of the New Growth Path to the National Development Plan (NDP) and (b) where does the Industrial Policy Action Plan (IPAP) fit in the context of the NDP;
(2) how is it envisaged that the NDP and its component parts will progressively contribute to the gross domestic product?]
THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: Hon Speaker, the Growth, Employment and Redistribution Strategy ought to stabilise South Africa's macroeconomy during a period of increasing public debt and fiscal deficit, exchange rate volatility and a shift in global investors' sentiment towards developing countries.
The Accelerated Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa in the third administration was premised on the acknowledgement that South Africa's economic growth rate was too low substantially to reduce poverty and that the benefits of economic growth were not being shared fairly by all South Africans. Similarly, the New Growth Path, NGP, was developed in the fourth administration in the aftermath of the global financial crisis, which had resulted in 1 million jobs being lost in South Africa and the substantial reduction in South Africa's economic growth rate.
The National Development Plan, NDP, represents a long-term strategy to eradicate poverty, increase employment and reduce inequality by 2030. There is indeed a link between the National Development Plan, the Industrial Policy Action Plan and the New Growth Path.
We state clearly in the ANC manifesto, which we are implementing, that within the National Development Plan vision exists critical policy instruments that will continue to drive government's policy agenda. This includes the New Growth Path, which promotes inclusive growth and the creation of decent work; and the National Infrastructure Plan, on which we spent R3 trillion in the past term, and will spend more this term as well to roll out infrastructure to improve people's lives and boost economic growth.
Regarding the Industrial Policy Action Plan, which supports the reindustrialisation of the economy, we have set a target of 5% economic growth by 2019 and we aim to use these instruments to achieve this target. Primarily, we have begun to institutionalise long-term planning integration and the co-ordination capacity within the state to drive industrialisation infrastructure development and other programmes.
This week we reconstituted the presidential infrastructure co-ordinating council, bringing together national, provincial and local spheres of government to hasten the delivery of roads, bridges, schools, hospitals, universities, colleges, dams, power stations and other infrastructure. We are also implementing other initiatives such as promoting local procurement and the creation of decent jobs by directing the state progressively to buy at least 75% of its goods and services from South African producers.
Our key strategy is to also support small enterprises, co-operatives and broad-based black economic empowerment. We will also mobilise the active participation of all sectors, including business and labour to move our country forward towards a 5% growth target. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms J L FUBBS (ANC): Speaker, Mr President, I also wish to thank you for explaining part of that. I would appreciate if, given as you also agree on these global threats and internal threats to the economy, can you just expand on the measures that are being implemented to ensure that the NDP and the NGP and the Industrial Policy Action Plan yield their intended objectives, particularly the creation of decent work? I thank you.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: Hon Speaker, as I have indicated, the instruments that we are using to ensure that the National Development Plan moves forward are very clear elements that will help to ensure that it is indeed implemented; that indeed in 2030 we will be able to see the results, as articulated in the plan itself. There are many other things that we could talk about. I just picked out those that are critical elements in the process of ensuring that indeed by 2030 we get what we wanted to get out of the NDP. Thank you.
Mr S N SWART (ACDP): Hon Speaker, arising from your response, Mr President, most political parties are in broad agreement with the NDP, and the ACDP appreciates the efforts you have outlined today to implement measures to increase economic growth.
We know that foreign investment remains one of the most crucial mechanisms to spur that growth, but I am sure you will agree that multinationals need a stable and predictable policy environment; and in this regard there are a number of Bills that have caused concern and which, in our opinion, fly directly in the face of the National Development Plan.
One of these is the Private Security Industry Regulation Amendment Bill, which requires foreign-owned security companies and their suppliers to sell 51% of their companies to South Africans. That is in violation of our World Trade Organisation, WTO's, general agreement on trades and services and also causes investors to wonder what sector will next have to hand over their businesses. The other pieces of legislation are the Promotion and Protection of Investment Bill, the Expropriation Bill and the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Amendment Bill.
Mr President, does one not want to avoid causing foreign investors becoming jittery with such policies and Bills, which can create the perception that South Africa is closing its doors to foreign direct investment and this against the backdrop of your visit to Washington and the African Growth and Opportunity Act, which requires any country wishing to benefit from that law to have a "market-based economy that protects private property rights"? Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: Speaker, I'm sure those Bills were discussed by this Parliament and I'm sure the intentions of the Bills were articulated by Members of Parliament. These were very specific, as you have just reminded us. They are very specific to specific sectors. They are not general Bills to every sector of the economy.
The one relating to security had specific considerations that were being raised in so far as that is concerned. I don't know how the debate went, but I'm hoping it indicated the probable issues. I wouldn't want to venture into an area which we did not necessarily debate here. If you have an economy in your country, as we do, there are issues that relate to the security of a country and I'm not sure that Bill wasn't addressing how far the economic activities with regard to how much they impact on the security of a country.
And I don't think there is any country that can say they opened up everything because they want foreign investors. The countries that lead in democracy have got very stringent security measures and Bills to protect their countries. [Applause.] That is why I am saying the opportunity must have been offered that people should've articulated what occasioned those kinds of amendments, etc.
With regard to the second Bill that you mentioned, I think there has been an agreed kind of approach that, whilst the foreign direct investment is absolutely important, you cannot do it in seclusion in order to look at the internal dynamics and also the benefits to the citizens of the country in so far as the economic activities are concerned, I think again this Bill was looking at that.
I am sure that if we were to debate outside in order not to take the time of this Parliament, we could indicate the problems that people face in getting into the economy. As you know, the economy does have the tendency to monopolise things. What do you do with the citizens if that continues? A country will then look at how you introduce the laws that must cater for the foreign direct investors as they cater for the citizens of the country.
According to my understanding the two Bills were addressing those kinds of issues. Any country has to address those issues. I think foreign investors will realise that this country cares for itself and I don't think in the end they will not come because they see two Bills addressing very specific issues. I don't think that will be the case. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr G G HILL-LEWIS (DA): Madam Speaker, Mr President, as much as you would like us to believe that there is grand harmony between the plans, no one is convinced, sir. You know, we know, and you know that we know that it is just not true. The ideological paralysis inside the ANC and the tripartite alliance has led to a government that endorses three different economic plans which contradict one another and which cannot coexist.
Just a few days ago we heard your close colleague, Mr Vavi, attacking the NDP savagely in Bloemfontein. That is why our economy is stuck in neutral and unemployment is still going up - believe it or not, but unemployment is still going up. So we have an Industrial Policy Action Plan, which contradicts a National Development Plan, which in turn contradicts a National Growth Path and more recently we're hearing continuously about a "radical plan".
My question to you, Mr President, is: Which is the plan? Which is the plan that supersedes all of the others when there is contradiction between the two - and there are many? [Applause.]
THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: Hon Speaker, I'm sure anyone who is a politician who starts from the premise that the opposition will agree to everything would be a funny politician. [Laughter.] That is precisely the reason why some of you don't agree with these good plans. That does not surprise anyone. It is normal in a democracy and that is why there is democracy. You will try to find problems where there are no problems.
I've stated here very clearly that many of these are in fact part of the instruments we are using to implement and harmonise the National Development Plan - and that is what they are, they are nothing else. Of course, from the imagination of the opposition they might be doing something else.
We can't help that. That is why you have got to be here to raise your issues. Nothing surprises anyone. The plan is a National Development Plan. [Applause.] That is the plan that is overarching all other subplans. Others support this one - the matters are very clear. We have said this time and again.
The comrade you are quoting, my colleague, you are now wanting to believe that he has spoken for the first time. Vavi has been critical on a number of things. This is nothing new. Even on the policies of the ANC. You can't in a sense enhance your question by introducing his name. He's known as a very independent fellow in his views. So what is new? That is nothing new. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms S J NKOMO (IFP): Speaker, Mr President, what plans are in place to bring down the cost of manufacturing in South Africa so as to alleviate our unhealthy dependence on foreign goods? Shouldn't South Africa be able to provide for itself and be an exporter in stead of a chronic importer? Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: Speaker, the issue of the cost of doing business is a matter we are discussing continuously and we are doing everything to ensure that we deal with the issue.
I don't think it is just in manufacturing only, there are a lot of other issues we are looking at to see how we can bring down the cost of doing business in South Africa. But how do we encourage South Africans themselves to participate and to be a part of the economies in all sectors?
What also becomes important is to indicate where these issues are that you believe are a problem to the cost of doing business in South Africa. The ones that we have identified we deal with and no country will say we want to raise the cost in order to have direct foreign investment. I mean, everyone would want to do it within a particular kind of framework so that business does not go elsewhere. Of course, one of the problems is that business, leaving aside the cost, have been very reluctant investors so to speak; even the local ones. It is known by everybody today that the sector that is leading in terms of investment in this country is government. Where is the business sector?
Now, that tells you the problem - the "attitudal" problems that people have. Of course there are other issues that you raised. These matters we are discussing to ensure that we'll find a way not to make doing business in South Africa costly and this is a matter we discuss continuously. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Question 2:
[Q2. The Leader of the Opposition (DA) to ask the President of the Republic:
When will he (a) table the terms of reference and (b) establish the time frame of the inquiry which was announced a month ago on Saturday, 5 July 2014, to investigate the appointment of Mr Mxolisi Nxasana as the National Director of Public Prosecutions?]
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, as we were finalising the process related to the inquiry, we should include, amongst others, the terms of reference. The National Director of Public Prosecutions asked for a meeting with the President. I granted the meeting. He then postponed his standing challenge in court, which had been aimed at obtaining an interdict against a possible suspension.
I also halted the processes that related to the inquiry to allow an opportunity for that meeting. At the meeting, he tabled certain issues to which I am still applying my mind. I will meet with him again soon to take matters forward. The issues that he raised needed to given some thinking so that when we meet, we would be able to then move forward. Both of us halted the activities - he, on the one side, postponed the challenge in court and I, in turn, halted the processes which are related to the issue of the terms of reference. They were concluded already, but that meeting was very important because, as government, it is of great importance to hear what people have to say. Indeed, that meeting was very important from my point of view. I thank you.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Speaker and Mr President, on 6 April 2009, the then National Director of Public Prosecutions dropped 781 charges against you, ranging from things like corruption and racketeering. Noting that, do you believe or, in fact, do you not agree, Mr President, that there is a conflict of interest in you being able to appoint the person who then has the duty or task to decide whether or not to reinstate the charges or, in fact, to proceed in dropping them? Do you believe, Mr President, that there is, in fact, a conflict of interest and, if so, what steps are we going to take to prevent that conflict of interest from occurring?
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, I may not know the details of the charges, and the hon member may know better. [Interjections.] As far as I am concerned, I have no charges against me. Therefore, the issue of a conflict of interest does not arise. [Interjections.] I have no charges, let alone the fact that having charges does not mean that you are convicted. You go through the court process first. So, I am saying that the issue of the conflict of interest does not arise in the job I do. [Applause.] This particularly applies to this case, to the matter that you raise, because you raise an issue that is a non-issue. [Interjections.] It is a non-issue. The charges were withdrawn. There was nothing. If you know there are charges that perhaps are substantial, etc ...
An HON MEMBER: They are coming!
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: ... you are lucky. We do not know, so the matter does not arise. [Interjections.] There is no need to answer the question, really. I think what I have said tells you that your question is not really a serious question. [Interjections.] You are picking up there and there. Thank you, Speaker. [Applause.] [Interjections.] It is an answer. It was not a question.
Dr M S MOTSHEKGA: Speaker and President, can you assure this House that government will do everything possible to bring about stability at the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, so that the institution can focus on its work effectively without distractions?
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, I will indeed assure the House that it is what I will do. That is part of the reason why I have taken the decisions I have taken. From the nature of the discussion and the information given to me, I was able to identify some of the problems, as the head of the institution sees it. Certainly, once we have concluded this current matter, we will act in a manner that will ensure that this institution is stable. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr S N SWART: Speaker, arising from your response, hon President, I represented the ACDP on the ad hoc parliamentary committee dealing with the Ginwala inquiry into Adv Pikoli's fitness to hold office as National Director of Public Prosecutions. Notwithstanding the fact that the inquiry found that Adv Pikoli was a fit and proper person to hold that office, the then President Motlanthe decided that he should not be retained in that office.
At that stage, Parliament considered the desirability of it - Parliament - playing a more substantive role in the suspension and firing of the National Director of Public Prosecutions. Now, given the fact that the National Director of Public Prosecutions needs to perform his function independently and without fear or favour and that security of tenure is a very important part of that independence, would you, hon President, not support the notion that Parliament should play a more substantive role in the appointment and possible suspension or dismissal of the National Director of Public Prosecutions? This could possibly be in a similar manner in which judges are appointed and dismissed. Thank you, Speaker.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, I think these institutions were set out very clearly in the Constitution - how they are appointed and, if there were difficulties, how these should be handled. Insofar as the work of the executive related to the appointment of the head of this institution, that is a task given to another leg of our Constitution in terms of our state. Parliament has its own tasks to undertake.
If you want to request Parliament to be added something out of what is being done by the executive, it is a different matter. I am sure that you are free to do so. I don't think there has been any problem. The matters were dealt with in the Pikoli matter which you referred to. Processes were undertaken. If the President at the time felt he could no longer work with a person, given what has happened, why should he be forced to do so? I do not think he should be forced to do so. I do not think he violated any law. Even if there was no problem that had gone to a commission or whatever, if he was not satisfied with the performance, he would have taken a decision to say that the person cannot function at a level he wants him or her to and should therefore please go.
I do not think precisely just because of that incident, you now think Presidents must be helped by Parliament in their jobs. I do not think so. I think we are doing the job there, as given by the voters of this country, very well. [Interjections.] Absolutely! [Interjections.] There is a "we." There is a "we." [Laughter.] Thank you, Speaker.
The SPEAKER: The hon Mpontshane from the IFP.
Mr M A MNCWANGO: Sorry, Madam Speaker, it is not Mpontshane. It is me. I pressed Mr Mpontshane's thing because my thing is not working. [Laughter.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Mncwango ... [Laughter.] Please, we won't ask you what you are talking about. [Laughter.]
Mr M A MNCWANGO: I was ready to respond, Madam Speaker. Your Excellency Mr President, the manner in which the National Director of Public Prosecutions was appointed has undoubtedly created a great deal of controversy which does not bode well for the credibility of that institution. Can His Excellency the President tell us what measures are in place to ensure that proper screening of candidates applying for senior positions is done? Who should be held responsible for not performing the proper background checks and balances? Other than being relieved of their duties, what other consequences are appropriate for these individuals?
The SPEAKER: Speaker, I do not know how much the member knows about what happens in the processes of employing the head of the NPA. I thought that as far as the reports all processes were followed, up to the last. Those who were following the process were satisfied at the end that they can employ the head of the NPA.
It is difficult to answer the part of the question where you do not know what was not followed. I might begin to discuss - and it would be speculation. The member asks whether the process was followed properly. As far as I know, yes, it was. What is the issue? Why do you discuss that? That is unless the member knows, and that would then be a different matter. Then the member could tell us this and that was not done, and that is why there are problems.
IsiZulu:
USOMLOMO: Cha, siyabonga Bab' uMncwango, kodwa sesiqedile ngoMbuzo 2. [No. Thank you, hon Mncwango, but we are done with Question 2.]
English:
Mr M A MNCWANGO: Well, I thought, Madam Speaker, that I could ask a follow-up question to clarify my question because the President had ...
IsiZulu:
USOMLOMO: Cha, sesiqedile mbuzo wakho. [No, we are done with your question.]
English:
We now come to Question 3.
Mr J S MALEMA: Speaker, the commander-in-chief of the EFF pressed that facility there. So, we are waiting to ask our follow-up question. May we please be allowed to do so?
The SPEAKER: Hon member, if you heard me at the start, we are limited to four follow-up questions, after we had taken the member who asked the original question as the first person raising a supplementary question. We have now taken three more, up to hon Mncwango. So, we have exhausted the four supplementary questions, and the EFF ...
Mr J S MALEMA: Speaker ...
The SPEAKER: Let me finish. The EFF was listed as numbers six and seven. So, you cannot ask a supplementary question for this particular question because we have completed and exhausted what we are allowed in terms of supplementary questions. We would like to move on the question that had been ...
Mr J S MALEMA: No, Speaker, on a point of procedure here, these things that we press here, and then you decide who is the top four there, are very problematic because what if we are being excluded from asking a follow-up question here? We pressed immediately when you started asking about Question 2. Now we are told that we are number six.
The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, we have taken the four questions as they appeared on the list of supplementary questions. So, we have exhausted those four questions. We now move on to Question 3 asked by hon ...
Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: Speaker, may I address you?
The SPEAKER: Where are you? Yes, hon member.
Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: Speaker, according to Rule 72 of the National Assembly Rules-
A member may speak -
(a) when called upon to do so by the Presiding Officer.
I therefore request the Presiding Officer, who at this time is the Speaker, to ask the hon members to desist from such behaviour within the House. Thank you.
The SPEAKER: Thank you, hon member. Now, we proceed to Question 3, asked by the hon Malema, leader of the EFF.
Question 3:
[Q3 Mr J S Malema (EFF) to ask the President of the Republic:
When will he respond to the Public Protector's Report on the security upgrades at his residence in Nkandla?]
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, as the hon members are aware, my response to all the reports on the security upgrades at my private residence was submitted to the Speaker on Thursday last week, 14 August 1994. I thank you. Sorry, 2014. [Laughter.] Sorry, hon Speaker, 2014.
Mr J S MALEMA: Thanks, hon Speaker and President. Mr President, we are asking this question precisely because you have not provided the answer. Firstly, you failed to meet the 14 days of the Public Protector, and, secondly, when you responded, you were telling us that the Minister of Police must still decide who must pay.
In our view, the report of the Public Protector supersedes any other form of report which you might be expecting somewhere else. So the question we are asking today - and we are not going to leave here before we get an answer ... [Laughter.] ... is: When are you paying the money, because the Public Protector has instructed you that you must pay the money, and we want the date of when you are paying the money?
Mr B A RADEBE: A point of order, Speaker ... Speaker, a point of order!
Mr J S MALEMA: These things of point of order are the ones that you are hiding behind. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] You are very good at that, because every time reports are brought here, it's "point of order", "point of order". We are here to ask questions and we need answers. Please!
The SPEAKER: The hon member who has raised the point of order ... ?
Mr B A RADEBE: Thank you, Speaker. The issues raised by the hon member are going to be dealt with by the ad hoc committee appointed by this House. [Interjections.] Why must he pre-empt the work of that appointed committee? [Interjections.]
Mr G A GARDEE: Point of order, Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Hon members, this is an opportunity for the House to address questions to the President. I now give the President the opportunity to respond to the supplementary question of the hon Malema.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon Speaker. As I said when answering the question, I have responded to the reports about Nkandla. The reports about Nkandla are not only from the Public Protector. There is the SIU report. There was a report before the task committee.
I have responded to all the reports, as I am supposed to. I hope we are not going to make a debate on this issue, because I've ... [Interjections.] ... responded appropriately. The issue, for example, that the hon member is referring to is a matter that arises in the recommendations of the Public Protector. [Interjections.] And I am saying, the people who did the upgrades at Nkandla ... [Interjections.] ... they are the ones who always ...
The SPEAKER: Hon members, please allow the President to finish.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: ... determine who pays when to pay. It is the government that decides. And the matter is referred to people who are legally authorised to make that determination. Thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: The hon Holomisa ...
Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: Hon Speaker, may I address you? According to the House Rule, a member of this House, if he or she is still at the podium, is not supposed to be interrupted. [Interjections.]
Mr M Q NDLOZI: On a point of order ... On a point of order. Point of order! [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon members! What is your point of order, hon Shivambu?
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Really, we have dealt with the issues of Rules. We have got that book as well. We know those things there. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] Could that lady please sit down, so that we can continue with the business of asking questions here, please?
The SPEAKER: Hon President, please uh ...
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: I have answered. I have answered the question.
The SPEAKER: The hon Holomisa is now supposed to come to the floor. Hon Holomisa, please take ...
Mr N S MATIASE: Point of order ... Could we please be provided with answers, not hiding behind Parliament ... [Inaudible.] ... as is the case here.
The SPEAKER: Hon member, that is not a point of order. Please take your seat. Take your seat. Hon Holomisa ...
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Speaker ...
The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, take your seat.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: There's a question about payment of the money. When is the President paying the money?
The SPEAKER: I have not recognised you.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: And he has not answered the question of when he is paying the money. That is what ... [Inaudible.] ... for him. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, I will throw you out of the House. [Interjections.] I will throw you out of the House if you don't listen. Hon Holomisa, please ...
Ms K LITCHFIELD-THABALALA: Hon Speaker ...
The SPEAKER: No. Please take you seat, hon member of the EFF.
Ms K LITCHFIELD-THABALALA: But we have not been answered.
The SPEAKER: Take your seat. I am presiding.
Ms K LITCHFIELD-SHABALALA: We want the money. The hon ... [Inaudible.]
The SPEAKER: Take your seat. [Interjections.]
Ms K LITCHFIELD-SHABALALA: ... [Inaudible.] ... just pay back the money. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Holomisa ...
Mr G A GARDEE: Hon Speaker ...
The SPEAKER: Hon member of the EFF: Take your seat.
Mr G A GARDEE: Can I address you on ... [Inaudible.]
The SPEAKER: Take your seat. I am not recognising you.
Mr G A GARDEE: Can we address you on this issue?
The SPEAKER: I am not recognising you.
Mr G A GARDEE: If you could only listen and then decide whether to sustain the matter or not.
The SPEAKER: Hon member, I am presiding and I am allowing hon members to talk to the President. Get supplementary questions.
Mr G A GARDEE: Hon Speaker, the issue here is about the money.
The SPEAKER: Take your seats, hon members. [Interjections.] Take your seat. Take your seat. I will have to ask the Serjeant-at-arms to take out members who are not serious about this sitting. [Interjections.]
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Speaker, on a point of order ...
The SPEAKER: Take your seat.
Mr M Q NDLOZI: I am asking to be recognised, hon Speaker, on a point of order.
The SPEAKER: Serjeant-at-arms, please assist me with relieving the members in this House, who are not serious about this sitting, to take their leave.
Mr M Q NDLOZI: We are serious, Speaker. We are raising a point of order. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: I am not allowing you ... [Inaudible.] [Interjections.] I am not allowing you ... [Inaudible.] [Interjections.] Hon members, leave the House. [Interjections.] Leave the House. [Interjections.]
Ms K LITCHFIELD-SHABALALA: No. All we are asking for ... [Inaudible.] ... pay back the money. Why are we getting thrown out? [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: That money, Nkandla money, must be paid. [Interjections.] You can't hide behind the Presidency. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon members, I am calling security. I am suspending the House for a few minutes for these hon members to leave. [Interjections.]
The House is suspended for three minutes. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
BUSINESS SUSPENDED AT 14:58 DUE TO GRAVE DISORDER IN TERMS OF RULE 56 AND RESUMED AT 16:15.
THE SPEAKER
SUSPENSION OF THE BUSINESS
(Announcement)
The SPEAKER: Hon members, let's take our seats. We have decided to resume the sitting briefly, simply to give you feedback on the time we had suspended the sitting and the consultations with various groups and sectors that support the work of Parliament as well as with the Office of the President. We would like to give you feedback on the outcome of those consultations. We all know what happened in the House earlier and we would like to allow the consultations that have started to continue, but after we have released the members of the House.
Hon members, we are now faced with a situation where we are unable to continue with the sitting and have allowed the President to proceed with the work of his Office. We have to look at when we will have the next opportunity for him to come back and finish the programme of the House.
However, South Africa knows that the President was here to perform his constitutional duty and was not given the opportunity to finish. Therefore, at this point, we would like to adjourn the sitting for the rest of the day so that we can continue to consult on any elements that require further consultation. We will be back tomorrow, continuing with the work of Parliament, until we have agreed with the Office of the President as to the finishing of the questions to the President.
Hon members, on that note, I can assure you that we were in consultation with all opposition parties and agreement has been reached on how we should approach the issues of the rest of the work of this afternoon.
Hon members, I have been told that there are no sittings tomorrow. Therefore, we will proceed according to the programme of Parliament as has been announced. Hon members, with those words, I adjourn the sitting of this House.
The House adjourned at 16:17.
Source: Unrevised transcript, Hansard
Video recording of the sitting:
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