Post Cabinet briefing by Jimmy Manyi, Government Spokesperson, Imbizo Media Centre, 120 Plein Street, Cape Town, February 22 2011

Jimmy Manyi, Statement on the Cabinet meeting held on 16 February 2011, February 22 2011

Cabinet held its ordinary meeting in Cape Town on 16 February 2011.

As per earlier notification, we apologise for the delay in issuing the post Cabinet briefing which should have taken place last week Thursday. The intention was to allow for an undivided attention to the President's response to questions and comments from the National Assembly.

Cabinet noted the status of acid mine drainage in the Witwatersrand  and approved the recommendations made by the Team of Experts to the Inter-Ministerial Committee which include amongst others the following: 

• implementing ingress control measures to reduce the rate of flooding and the eventual decanting and pumping volume;
• reducing costs to deal with acid mine drainage (AMD);
• improving water quality management including neutralisation and metal removal in the short-term;
• removal of salt loads from river systems to be considered in the medium to long-term;
• improving monitoring and undertaking research to inform decision making and managing and monitoring other AMD sources within Witwatersrand basin.

Cabinet agreed that further work needs to be done to investigate the possibility of an environmental levy for consideration by Cabinet.

South Africa was elected as Vice President of the Centre for Science and Technology of the Non-Aligned movement (NAM S&T Centre) for four years (2010 to 2013).  The Department of Science and Technology (DST) intends to host NAM S&T Centre Governing Council (GC) meeting in 2013.  Activities promoted by the centre include sharing knowledge and best practices; building capacity and expertise on a wide range of scientific topics through conferences, workshops, seminars and training courses. These will focus on human capital development that will assist the DST/SA in developing human resources in various scientific fields.

Cabinet noted the increasing threat of piracy in South African waters and agreed to explore initiatives aimed at assisting Somalia to counter some of the root causes of piracy. It further supported the implementation of the Eastern and Southern African-Indian Ocean (EAS-IO) strategy to combat piracy along the coast of Somalia and the greater Southern African waters. The Minister of Defence and Military Veterans, Ms. Lindiwe Sisulu will the take the lead in developing a strategy  to address the threat of piracy in Southern African waters for consideration by Cabinet - a strategy that will focus on South Africa's stance in relation to stabilising the political situation in Somalia; the legislative framework dealing with criminals involved in piracy; the positioning and strengthening of South African (SA) naval forces' capacity in relation to the continent and other countries; and co-opting assistance from neighbouring countries.

Cabinet noted the role played by the South African Revenue Service (SARS) as the African Tax Administration Forum (ATAF) interim Secretariat. Cabinet  approved the ratification of the ATAF Agreement and endorsed that South Africa hosts the ATAF secretariat with the purpose of building strong and capable tax administration in Africa.

Cabinet approved that a review be undertaken by the Department of Sport and Recreation through the Department of Science and Technology to establish how the World Cup delivery model could be harnessed for the advancement of the national development programme.  Based on the outcome of the review mentioned above, a Project Management Unit (PMU) in the Presidency or in any other department whose work cuts across all functions of Government will be set up to coordinate the special strategic programmes that Government intends delivering to communities. The departments involved in delivering the programmes should establish dedicated implementation units for the execution of their projects. Cabinet approved that departments who have listed lessons learnt from the hosting of the 2010 FIFA World Cup, utilise such studies to speed up service delivery in their respective sectors. 

The Department of Sport and Recreation is in the process of developing a Country 2010 FIFA World Cup Report as well as a report on the impact of the World Cup on Social Cohesion. All members will submit written inputs to the Minister of Sport and Recreation, Mr Fikile Mbalula for integration into the comprehensive public report to be published by the end of March 2011. The Department of Sport and Recreation is engaging the South African Football Association (SAFA) with a view to bringing the FIFA World Cup Champions, Spain, to South Africa to play against an African XI in June 2011.

Cabinet endorsed the call for better coordination and adherence to be given to protocols and procedures that contribute towards advancing South Africa's international work during international engagements.

Cabinet noted the Science and Technology Ministerial Review Report on Science, Technology and Innovation (STI). The Minister of Science and Technology, Ms Naledi Pandor, established a Ministerial Committee in July 2010 to provide a better understanding of what is being achieved in and by the National System of Innovation (NSI). The review of the STI landscape seeks to strengthen the NSI and enhance the country's innovation capabilities.  Phase two of the review will be able to advise on the best and most cost-effective ways in which innovation can be promoted in the country for economic benefit and the good of all citizens.

Cabinet noted the internal work in progress by the Minister of Finance, Mr Pravin Gordhan to align the Preferential Procurement Policy Framework Act to the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Codes of Good Practice.

The following Bill was approved:

Judicial Matters Amendment Bill, 2011

The primary aim of the Bill is to amend numerous Acts, most of which are intended to address practical and technical issues of a non-contentious nature. Cabinet approved the Bill for submission to Parliament during the 2011 session.

The following appointments were approved:

• The Director-General of Environmental Affairs, Ms Nosipho Ngcaba's contract was extended for a period of five years.
• Mr Brian Molefe was appointed Group Chief Executive of Transnet as of 1 March 2011.
• Mr E Masilela was appointed as Executive Director to the Board of Public Investment Corporation Limited (PIC) for a period of five years.
• Mr Logan Naidoo (Board Chairperson), Ms Sindi Mabaso-Koyana and Mr Paris Mashile were appointed non-executive Directors of Sentech for a period of three years.
• Mr Lazarus Zim was appointed Board Chairperson of the Telkom Board for a period of one year. The other board members appointed are Mr Jeff Molobela, Mr Navin Kapila, Ms Jacqueline Huntley and Ms Julia Hope.

Transcript of Questions and answers:

Journalist: On the Acid Mine Drainage, has any value been put to the amount of damage caused or is there any value on how much it will cost to start improving water quality? 

Journalist: The full set of recommendations made by the team f experts, will we get copies of those, will we get insight into the full set of recommendations made? 

Journalist: I would lie to know who is going to be in charge of implementing these measures, who is going to be driving it, who is going to be monitoring it. Are there going to be private companies involved in that process? Also environmental levy, on whom and for what and who driving the investigation into whether it is feasible.  

Journalist: When will the work start on the Acid Mine Drainage and what are the deadlines, time frames?  

Journalist: I wanted to ask something that is not in the statement. With regards to the outcry over the outcry of the Gauteng toll roads, we understand that there is a meeting of cause between the Minister of Transport and the Premier of Gauteng who has also raised concerns around it. I am trying to understand what is the general view within Cabinet about this issue, especially about the cost to motorists of the implementation of it? Is there a view that this, the cost per kilometre should be reduced. What is the general view around this? 

Minister Trevor Manuel: You know the costs depend very much on the methodology and the methodology as I understand it is to focus on separating out the three basins firstly. The dealing with the issues separately, the one issue is dealing with the rising water and part of that is preventing ingress. You are seeing right now all across Gauteng as a consequence of some very heavy rains that you have had across the three basins the water table has risen, and this increases the perception of rapid de-canned. The truth of the matter is that in a lot of instances this is water that has gone in now and then flowing out. So we need to ensure that you have immediate pumping across the three basins, I think that the sciences are pretty good on what the levels are.

The second issue is the neutralisation of the assiduity of water that is pumped. And the third issue is of cause working continuously to ensure that we have permanent solutions to the problem. So depending on the root that we take I mean, it would be incorrect to talk about the numbers for the first year because I am sure the Minister of Finance will give some attention to this matter tomorrow. But it is something that has been in discussion, it has been in discussion as part of disaster management as a consequence of very high levels of rainfall that we have had. It is also part of the ongoing works to ensure that we can deal with the risks associated with mining activity over a very long period of time.  

The question of who is in charge, clearly it has to be the Minister of Water and Environmental Affairs. She has a double remit to ensure that both sides of the equation are adequately dealt with in respect of an environmental levy. It is a complex issue, it is complex because in Mpumalanga at Emalahleni (sic) the mines are actually paying for water reclamation and the reduction of assiduity. In fact a lot of water from there is put back into use from time to time. I get some of this water and drink it at occasions like this to ensure that the water is quite safe for consumption, but the mines are paying for that water. Now if you have that in one part of the country it would be quite incorrect in another part of the country to transfer the responsibility entirely to the fiscus. So there needs to be a thorough investigation into mines that are operative now, mines that have been operative just recently and mines that are now derelict or effectively owner-less, so that the responsibility for that will be taken. I think that as a government we want to give all South Africans the assurance that this matter is receiving attention, that the sciences is expectationally good on this matter, that there actually is no cause for panic about it. I want to repeat that, there is no cause for panic about it and that we will deal with this matter in the fullness of time understanding that we will try and reclaim maximumly from profit making mines. That which we can reclaim and understand that we have a collective responsibility to ensure the safety of water systems, flood plains etc. so that South Africans can know that this matter is being dealt with. 

The question about deadlines, some of the work is a lot more urgent, in terms of the information that we have available. Part of what the report suggest is there is a very clear understanding of where the deepest mining is taking place, where the greatest risks of decant exists across the three basins. We will ensure that we will ensure that we can deal with the work in fullness of time but some of it certainly in the western basin is to start immediately. In respect of the report my understanding is that the report put together by the team of experts will be available probably the day after tomorrow. This relates to a Cabinet decision about the matter, get the Budget out of the way, the full report will be available probably on the Department's website the day after tomorrow.  

Journalist: You state here that Cabinet endorsed a call for better coordination and adherence to be given to protocols and procedures that contributes towards advancing South Africa's international work during international engagements. Surely some kind of concern must have led to this being included. What exactly are you referring to, where are we not seeing good coordination and adherence.  

Journalist: A question on the Acid Mine Drainage. Last year the then Minister talked about the need to buy a pump. So I just want some clarity on that has this special pump been bought and can you just explain a bit of that. Thanks.  

Journalist: Minister Manuel, are you in a position to give us an idea of just how expensive is it to deal with this issue of Acid Mine Drainage.  

Journalist: Also on the pump, Minister Molewa said last week that the money for this pump near Boksburg has been received but it seems that it will only be running at the end of next year. Is this not a bit tight especially some of this scientists that warned we have about a two year window before a catastrophe strikes.  

Journalist: Can we get an idea of a time frames for the central basin which includes running under Johannesburg, I think we were told about an 18 month window before it hit the critical environmental zone, just if those figures have been adjusted. 

Minister Trevor Manuel: I must defer to the Acting DG but also we have some scientists available to join us from Pretoria if the need arises. My understanding is that there is no one magical pump, there is a series of pumping activities that you need to do across. Because you are talking of a distance of probably 200 kilometres and any idea that you are going to pump in one place and resolve the issue I think is mistaken. Partly also because the voids in these basins are actually distinct from each other, so you need to have the activity in the different parts. Lets just defer but I have sense that the most important area right now would be the western basis but why don't you just fill out the details. 

Trevor Balzer (sic), Acting DG for Water Affairs: The key critical area to deal with first is obviously the western basis where we have the de-canned taking place. We will do diligence on the infrastructure that is in place and then go through the process of procurement of pumps to bring that water level down to the environmentally critically level. We will then focus at the same time our attention on the central basin and in terms of time frame there we would need to make sure that we have the pump station operational by March of 2012. In terms of the work tat I have done with my technical team they assure me that it is very feasible to do that. So by 2012 we should have the pump stations established and be able to move water out of the basin.  

Henk Coetzee, Expert (Pretoria): I think it has been covered the issue of the pump and the rate of rise that we see. If the pumps are in place by March 2012 we will protect that environmental critical level. I think what we are also observing at the moment is that as we get into the shallow portions of the mines there is a larger volume to fill so the rate of rise we hope and we are seeing at the moment will slow slightly.  

Minister Trevor Manuel: I think it is important to emphasise as well that there are actually separate processes. The one is a chemical process because you have the pirates in the ore that interacts with oxygen and then you get the production of acid. The other issue is that her is just water coming out so we have to try and get the best return for the effort we put in earliest. Thabo's question about how expensive, saying it depends on the options you take. I have said before and I will say it again that some of those companies that go into our ears and lobby have actually got the most expensive proposals. What we are looking at here is the least cost proposal separating our three discrete basins. That is what we focused on and it depends on, there are some options that will work. There are some things like canals already in operation around Florida that can take water away, allow for some oxidation. You can deal with the removal of assiduity quite differently. In some instances there would have to be pretty detailed analysis right on the spot again because what looks like a lowest cost capital expenditure program in some instances may actually have very high maintenance costs. We can't take sort of a one week view of the issue. I think that we would continue to work with experts and take a life cycle view of this. So you need to balance out how much you are going to spend on pumps and desalination plants and filtration mechanisms and how mow you are going to spend on maintaining.

These are issues that will be resolved in the detail, right now we have to get the first year under way. I know there is a number to be announced on that tomorrow. There is no catastrophe, this is something that, you can't see those scientists but I am very impressed by how calm and controlled they are. How much detail they have available, how they have been able to test these ideas with all kinds of people with interesting qualifications in a number of universities and scientific agencies. I am pretty assured of the information that we have available. I think that once you read the report on Thursday, hopefully it will keep you await on Thursday night because you would be so interested in this report you will have the same kind of reassurance. Throw away your gumboots and relax with us because we are dealing with this matter.  

Journalist: I would like to know who is going to implement these plans, I think someone also asked that but the sound is very bad over here, I am sorry if I didn't hear it correctly Who is going to build the pump station and who did the research? 

Trevor Manuel: Who did the research? Every scientists who was involved in the report would have their names attached prior to the report that will be available on Thursday, no difficulty with that at all. Some of the contributors to the report are there in the room with you. From the Council for Geo-Science and the Department of Water Affairs and a number of universities. Some of them are there in the room with you, so there is no secrecy about the report. This process will be managed by the Department of Water Affairs and one of the things you will find in the report and I want to emphasise that you will not find that this report is driven by a single company who wants their proposal in there. It is likely that the Department will do some of the work and other big civil work will probably be pt out to tender and the jobs are likely to be done for the separate basins in that way. 

Journalist: Also on the Acid Mine Drainage. If Water Affair is going to be managing the process, are they actually going to be controlling the immediate pumping that needs to happen and will they also be paying for it? Am I correct in saying the second step, the neutralisation no technology towards this has been made in that regard yet. Then you keep telling us that there is no cause for panic and we can relax. Can you tell us exactly what the risks are and who is that risk? For example in these areas where the de-canned is already happening, is drinking water affected, are people playing in this water, what is going on, what do we need to worry about or not?  

Minister Trevor Manuel: Before we go there let's just ask Deputy Minister Oliphant because it's quite pertinent. I mean this is not a one show pony the Department of Mineral Resources is quite fundamentally involved in this process and perhaps the Deputy Minister should be able to explain this.  

Deputy Minister Godfrey Oliphant: It is not like the job is only going to start after the release of the report a lot of work has taken place already. There is constant monitoring of the water levels particularly in the central basin that is taking place. There is a technology that is used to ensure that we monitor that on a 24hour basis. That is why we say there is no cause for panic, Minister Manuel has alluded to the fact that some work has taken place already for instance the Florida Canal Phase One has been completed already. The canal is meant to ensure that we control some ingress so that there is no water getting into the shafts again. So that process is continuing we have concluded phase one and we will be getting into phase two on these matters. Like we are saying that some of the work that has been taking place was already within the budget of the Department of Environmental Affairs and Water Affairs. So that matter is concluded and it is under control. So all I am trying to say it is not like some things are going to start happening after Thursday or after the release of the report, work has already continued in that basis. So we can just repeat that there is no need to panic and there is no catastrophe looming that we know. We trust the judgement of the experts and they have assured us that this matter is under control. I have visited the western basin myself and there is decanting taking place there but there is also treatment of water. There is no contaminated water released into any other streams. So I am just satisfied that this matter is under control. This treatment and pumping has been taking place over some time it is nothing new so we are comfortable that this matter is clearly under control. Thank you.  

Trevor Balzer: (Acting DG Water Affairs) I think if we could ask Henk Coetzee and Marius just to talk about the water quality issues from the Pretoria end, thank you.  

Henk Coetzee, Expert (Pretoria) Just in terms of the risk in terms of the pumping as the Minister already said from the Eastern Basin currently there is no pumping but there is no risk because the water is still 700 metres below surface. In terms of the Central Basis there's also no current challenges because the water is just below 500 metres below surface. So the current challenge that we have and the Minister already alluded to it is the Western Basin where there's a decant and that is of course the first priority that will be addressed after the announcement. Money is available and the scientists have got all the designs ready so we can start with the implement. Just another question in terms of neutralisation, neutralisation is seen as part of the pumping so once pumping has started then neutralisation will also be implemented. You can't see it into process so the very first phase is actually pumping and then neutralisation. After a year or what then probably you will have to look at taking that water to another level in terms of quality that will possible be used for potable water or maybe industries.

Journalist: Minister can you give us an indication of negotiations or conversations with the mining industry how have those been going? What is the position from their side and what sense do you get from them, how willing are they to assist in this whole process. Secondly mines that are defunct that are no longer operating, how will you go about tracing those owners or those companies that are suppose overseas or in some cases don't exist and operate any more.  

Journalist: Yes something that is not in the briefing just on expats. Has there been any word on from the Department of Foreign Affairs regarding South Africans in New Zealand following the disaster this morning.  

Journalist: Has any decision been taking about the possible deployment of corvettes in Mozambique or further north on the issue of piracy.  

Journalist: On the question of the Alignment of the Preferential Procurement Policy Framework Act to the Broad-based Black Economic Empowerment. It has taken a long time and I don't know whether the Minister of Finance explained what was going on, what were the difficulties or when it was likely to be ready. Thanks.  

Journalist: You said in the statement that the government is exploring initiatives aimed at assisting Somalia to counter some of the root causes of piracy. Can you dwell on that? What sort of initiatives are you looking at.  

Journalist: A follow up. I would be interested to hear whether Cabinet has taken a decision on military intervention regarding the Somalia piracy issue because what it appears to be is more a decision to provide assistance in other ways not military and not naval. I would be interested in hearing more about that.  

Minister Trevor Manuel: On the issue of piracy I want to indicate that Cabinet is rather split because some Cabinet members wants Pirates to win certainly on Saturday. (Laughing) Let me just go back and there was a particular from Mining Weekly about the nature of the risks. There are a whole series of issues the report indicates which we should be concerned about and the timing of decisions, preventing shallow ground water, contamination, consciousness about increased seismic risks and so on. All of those issues are there and in the report but can I just say to the person from Mining Weekly, if you spoke to Marius Keet or any of the people from Geo Science who are sitting in the room there in Pretoria, they can give you nitty gritty detail on this because it is actually a series of topics well canvassed in the report.  

The question about the Mozambique Channel well up to the Gulf of Aden is of course a difficult one it is difficult because the policy that we have pursued in respect of military is non aggression and where we have engaged in peace keeping operations it has always been at the request preferably of an international or continental agency. In the immediate we have the responsibility certainly to look at our colleagues in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region and of course we are concerned about the Mozambique Channel but I don't think it would be correct to say that as a Government we would take decisions that might be deemed to be aggressive without there being a discussion in a multi-lateral agency about this issue. So we haven't reached that point because there is no request on the table. I think people would be aware of the fact that there actually is a strict protocol that even where you send in six technical advisor to military outside of the country there are very strict protocols including approval by the President. Parliament needs to be informed, you can't just do these kinds of things because it looks like a good idea on a fine morning. That would be the approach that we take here one thing that all of us as a Cabinet collective are intensely conscious of is just what is in the nature of the risk. I think we all have a pretty acute understanding of the operations of piracy but it is pretty clear that in some ways you need some international approach to dealing with this matter. I see in some papers some people who are deep maritime experience are calling for the pirates to be drawn but that would not be constitutional in South Africa but the key issue is a series of questions about what the AU requires of its member states and I think we understand the context of the AU. We are one of the countries that have a more significant naval capacity than most other countries but if there's a decision on deployment we would need it to come from an agency other than the Cabinet in this country alone.  

On the Alignment of the Preferential Procurement Framework Act and the Broad-based Black Economic Empowerment, I think the chances are that the Minister of Finance would be available for detail briefings over the course of the next 48 hours at least and the matter should be canvassed there. On the question of the protocols, you know from time to time we have to look at a series of issues this Government is pretty involved in a range of international issues some bilateral but many multilateral issues as well and the posture that we take, sometimes colleagues are very enthusiastic and volunteer to host meetings that are actually logistical nightmares for the rest. All of these should be covered by a set of protocols, we have a series of big meetings coming up this week the President is hosting the President of Finland on the UN Sustainability Development Work. We are hosting the IOC later this year there's a the UNFCCC happening, these are big events outside of the various things we do abroad. So we need to revisit how we conduct ourselves and reference back to certainly ensuring that these issues are compliant with an international policy and that policy should always be set by DIRCO that's what the protocol would dictate. That there be an updating of information back to that centre and evaluation of fiscal consideration.  

Journalist: Just a question about the negotiations in the mining industry and a sense of how those conversations are going.  

Journalist: On the Acid Mine Drainage as far as I understand an environmental critical level which is by some people I suppose there can be differences of opinion or a definition of environmental critical level but it will be reached by February 2012. We've just been told that they will start pumping in March. It is clearly that it is a tight deadline and Government has been sitting on this issue for years at least two years as far as I know. What was the delay? Why did it take such a long time? 

Journalist: My question is related to the mining companies of the 200km stretch affected. How much is Government responsible for as a result of the abandoned derelict mines. 

Journalist: Last year the Minister of Water said that Aurora Mines was pumping millions of litres of acidic water into the Blesbokspruit River everyday. Is this still happening and will they be one of the mines that you also target for some, you know to compensation.  

Journalist: My question is around the public outcry over the Gauteng toll fees?  

Journalist: Just about conversations with the mining industry, how receptive are they and how's that going on.  

Deputy Minister Godfrey Oliphant: The question about the environmental critical level, I think Trevor Blazer will take it the Acting DG. About the cooperation with the mining industry, I think it is going very well and I think we should leave it at that because there are no resistance. Other mines for instance in the Central Basin are still operating, so in terms of the levels we still have to finalise at what levels should we pump. So it is an ongoing discussion for instance in the Western Basin there are some mining operations taking place in the area, using some of the water. So there are negotiations and talks taking place and it is going to be ongoing, so I think we are happy at the level of cooperation at this stage but we still have to take this point further. And it covers the issues generally about the cooperation with mining. I think Trevor should take the one on the ECL.  

Trevor Blazer: In my first initial response I indicated that in terms of our timing we wanted to have the pumps operational by March of 2012 and the question's that's been raised is that the critical level would be reached in February 2012. According to the panel of experts there estimate of us reaching the environmentally critical level is June of 2012 and not February 2012. So the March 2012 that I mentioned would be to secure the water level at below the 200 metre mark. That covers the question, thank you.  

Minister Trevor Manuel: There's another side to it and that is the environmentally critical level is determined and I thought that this was Marius Kent's response that the water depths are, I think there's a range of more than 300 metres between the highest and the lowest point in the different basis. So some of the stuff that you read about is in the middle of Johannesburg now the Central Basin is deeper than the Western Basin so the level and the timing would be quite different it is quite important that we are able to separate these things out in our minds as far as possible.  

Anna I would be very surprised if the previous Minister would have made a statement like that about Aurora. I would be very surprised but I can't verify it, I am not in a position to do so. It's a kind of liable statement that I would have difficulty with but perhaps the Deputy Minister of Mineral Resources are in a better position to talk to that issue.  

Deputy Minister Godfrey Oliphant: No I am no able to respond to that.  

Minister Trevor Manuel: Can I just speak to the last question. Over a number of years and I think the context is fundamentally important over a number of years the decision at both national level and as far as I understand the province of Gauteng was advised of what the Highway Improvement Scheme would entail. Firstly and secondly that this would be undertaken by SANRAL now if you look at the budget and check the budget review documents you will find that there is no transfer to SANRAL the only thing that Government avails for SANRAL are guarantees for their borrowing because roads agencies borrows in capital markets and it has to repay. If you look at the scale of undertaking across all of the free-ways in the province of Gauteng it is clear that it's a multi billion rand operation and the understanding has always been that SANRAL would have to be able to recover from motorists on a user/pay principle to ensure that the debts could be serviced. To the best of my knowledge Government wasn't actually brought in because it's a SANRAL decision it's a decision on the rates so unless I missed a series of Cabinet meetings, I don't know that Cabinet actually took a decision on this matter.

We took a decision on the principal of the countries and that there would be recovery on a user/pay principal. I think that from my understanding of Gauteng Premiers' State of the Province Address yesterday about the discussion with the Minister of Transport, there would have to be some discussion about what the rates are, what the impact of the rates are. I know that 66c a kilometre is a large amount of money, I am a resident of Johannesburg and I know that I will feel it. It is also quite difficult because the printed ads haven't help you understand but if you go to the SANRAL website there is a calculator that will allow anybody to go in there and you can indicate where you join the free-way and where you go off and distinguish between people who use it regularly and so on. If you take account of all of the discounts then the numbers begin to look quite different but it's a complexed issue because it is a user/pay so it is determined by frequency of use and so on. There are also issues of compliance, how do you recover all of these monies regularly but that in my understanding is where the decision making now vests. What we can't do is to devolve SANRAL of its responsibility to recover on a user/pay principle from motorists to use those very grand free-ways.  

Jimmy Manyi: Thank you very much Minister that was a bonus response. Ladies and gentlemen our next briefing is about to start. Thank you Ministers.

Statement issued by Government Communications (GCIS), February 22 2011

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