Hansard transcript of President Jacob Zuma’s answer to oral questions in the National Assembly, Tuesday, 13 September 2016
TUESDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER 2016
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
_________
The House met at 14:02.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
The SPEAKER
START OF DAY
Mr W M MADISHA: Hon Speaker ... hon Speaker ...
The SPEAKER: On what point are you rising, hon Madisha?
Mr W M MADISHA: Hon Speaker, as Parliament, we cannot legitimise a person after our highest court ruled that he has broken his oath of office. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Madisha ...
Mr W M MADISHA: We insist that he is not honourable. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Madisha ...
Mr W M MADISHA: He is not trustworthy. He is not representing the people. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Madisha ...
Mr W M MADISHA: The only question he must answer is, When is he resigning as President of our country? [Interjections.] [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Madisha, you have no basis on which to do what you have just done. [Interjections.] You have no basis in the Rules or in the law to raise what you are raising. [Interjections.] This hon President was elected in this House.
Hon MEMBERS: Go! Go!
Ms D CARTER: Hon Speaker ...
The SPEAKER: This President is actually a member and a leader of the executive, from whom we expect answers to Questions from hon members of this House. Therefore, hon member, there is no basis on which you say the things you have said, and I would like to appeal to the hon Madisha and the hon Carter to take their seats.
Ms D CARTER: Hon Speaker ...
Mr W M MADISHA: What you have said is exactly what I have said. If you say that he was elected in this Parliament, and we are all Members of Parliament. It is exactly what we have said.
The SPEAKER: Hon Madisha ...
Mr W M MADISHA: Therefore, what you are saying is what we are saying. He does not have the honour to do that. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Madisha, what you need to do, if you have an issue, is to submit it in the form of a substantive motion. This House has had a debate on issues relating to the Constitutional Court judgment. This House has even had a debate on, specifically, how it can address the issue of ending or terminating the term of the President, and all those issues have been settled. Therefore, hon members, I appeal to you – I appeal to you, hon Carter - to take your seats so we can proceed with Questions to the President.
Ms D CARTER: Hon Speaker, on a point of order ...
The SPEAKER: No, hon Carter.
Ms D CARTER: No Rule can overturn the Constitution.
The SPEAKER: Hon Carter ...
Ms D CARTER: Schedule 2 of the Constitution speaks of the President’s responsibility and his oath of office to the Republic of South Africa. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Carter, the same Constitution obliges the National Assembly to provide for mechanisms to hold the executive to account. Questions to members of the executive and Questions, specifically, to the President are one such mechanism. Therefore, I appeal to you to take your seat so that we can proceed with the programme of the afternoon on the basis of the decisions taken by the National Assembly Programming Committee which is a multiparty body that took the decision on today’s programme, which is Questions to the President. I therefore appeal to you, hon Carter, to please take your seat.
Ms D CARTER: Respectfully, hon Speaker, Cope cannot be part of this session ... [Interjections.] ... with a President who has broken his oath of office, and we will excuse ourselves. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: The Congress of the People has the right to leave the House and we will note that Cope has done so. [Interjections.] The hon the President.
Question 13:
13. Mr L P Khoarai (ANC) to ask the President of the Republic:
In view of the recent Cabinet Lekgotla where the Government’s programme of action, the Medium Term Strategic Framework, was reflected upon and firm decisions were taken on concrete action plans in order to take the Nine-Point Plan to a higher level, (a) what are the details of some of the decisions that were taken and (b) what do the specified action plans require from all identified sectors to take South Africa on a sustainable socio-economic trajectory? NO2024E
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, the recent Cabinet lekgotla ...
Mr J S MALEMA: On a point of order, Speaker ...
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: ... assessed the implementation ...
The SPEAKER: Excuse me, hon President. If you may, please take your seat. Hon Malema, what is the point of order?
Mr J S MALEMA: Hon Speaker, we are committing a serious constitutional blunder by allowing the President to speak in this House. [Interjections.] We have since written a letter to you, firstly, to ask you to discipline the President. [Interjections.] We did that through the normal channels of this Parliament because we understood that, following the Constitutional Court judgment, there must be consequences. It cannot be business as usual. You are going on to continue with the President without any consequences, even when the Constitutional Court pronounced clearly that the President violated his oath of office.
We wrote to you, again, yesterday, asking you not to allow the President to come to this House, because when the Constitutional Court found that he did not respect his oath of office, he was honourable no more – and this House only allows honourable people to come and speak here. Not criminals of note. Not people who continue to collapse this country because of their personal interests. We cannot allow the President to speak in this House. [Interjections.]
If you want to allow the President to speak in this House, you must know that you are acting outside the Constitution, and we are going to have to force you to discipline the President. We are going to have to go to court to force you to subject the President to court. [Interjections.]
These howlers can howl. There is nothing they can do. [Interjections.] You are a group of howlers! The voters have rejected you because of the conduct of one man. You have lost metros because of this attitude of howling. [Interjections.] This howling business is exactly what made you what you are in Port Elizabeth, in Tshwane, in Johannesburg. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order! Order!
Mr J S MALEMA: The voters have rejected Zuma.
The SPEAKER: Order!
Mr J S MALEMA: The voters have rejected Zuma! [Interjections.] [Inaudible.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker ...
The SPEAKER: Order, hon Malema!
Mr J S MALEMA: The voters have whispered and said to you that you cannot continue in the way you are doing. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order! Hon Malema ...
Mr J S MALEMA: Even when the voters have given you a warning ... [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: On a point of order, Madam Speaker ...
Mr J S MALEMA: ... you are still not listening ...
The SPEAKER: You are no longer speaking on a point of order.
Mr J S MALEMA: ... even when the voters warned you on 3 August. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Malema ...
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: On a point of order, Speaker ...
The SPEAKER: Hon Malema ...
Mr J S MALEMA: We have a motion here.
The SPEAKER: Hon Malema ... [Interjections.] Hon Malema, take your seat.
Mr J S MALEMA: I’m not going to take my seat. You must tell Zuma to leave. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Malema ...
Mr J S MALEMA: Why must I listen to you when you don’t tell Zuma to leave this House? [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: If you want to disrupt the House, Hon Malema ...
Mr J S MALEMA: I’m not disrupting any House!
The SPEAKER: ... I’m not going to allow you.
Mr J S MALEMA: I’m not going to disrupt any House! I’m not going to allow a criminal to speak in this House ... [Interjections.] ... when you are doing nothing about this criminal!
An HON MEMBER: Speaker, switch off his microphone!
Mr J S MALEMA: This man is collapsing our country ...
The SPEAKER: Hon Malema! Hon Malema ...
Mr J S MALEMA: [Inaudible.] ... he is collapsing this country, singlehandedly! [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: ... you can’t come and ... [Inaudible.] ... in the House, and I am now going to switch off your microphone ...
Mr J S MALEMA: Hon Speaker ...
The SPEAKER: ... because you have no right to come and shout in the House.
Mr J S MALEMA: ... we have - but listen to me!
The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, you can’t come ...
Mr J S MALEMA: But listen to me!
The SPEAKER: ... to the House and scream. You said you wanted to be allowed to express a point of order ...
Mr J S MALEMA: Yes. Let me make my last point.
The SPEAKER: ... and I gave you that opportunity ...
Mr J S MALEMA: I am making my last point.
The SPEAKER: ... and you are now abusing the opportunity.
Mr J S MALEMA: I’m making my last point. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: No. I am not allowing you, hon Malema, to continue.
Mr J S MALEMA: But I don’t ...
THE SPEAKER: You said ...
Mr J S MALEMA: ... now I’m not allowed ...
The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, take your seat!
Mr J S MALEMA: I’m not allowed ...
The SPEAKER: Hon Malema!
Mr J S MALEMA: ... but a man who has been found to have broken his oath of office ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Take your seat!
Mr J S MALEMA: ... is going to be allowed to speak here! [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: He will speak!
Mr J S MALEMA: We will not allow that.
An HON MEMBER: He is going to speak.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, we are here, in this House, on business agreed to by the Programming Committee of this House. [Interjections.] That is the first point. Indeed, hon Speaker, that Programming Committee set up that programme for the President to appear here, informed by Clause 140 of the Rules of this House, where the President, once a quarter, will come and answer Questions in this House. Therefore, the President is here, not to be ridiculed, but to answer Questions in this House. [Interjections.] He is here to be accountable to this Parliament through the answering of Questions.
Let me deal with another matter, hon Speaker. If this House does not want this President, there is a constitutional provision under section 89 ...
Mr G A GARDEE: Madam Speaker, on a point of order ...
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Under section 89, the Constitution states that...
Mr G A GARDEE: Madam Speaker, on a point of order ...
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: ... the House, with a two-thirds majority ...
The SPEAKER: You can’t raise a point of order on top of another point of order.
Mr G A GARDEE: No, but he’s now screaming at me ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: No! Please take your seat. [Interjections.] Hon Gardee, please take your seat.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: ... with a two-thirds majority, this House may remove a President.
Mr G A GARDEE: Madam Speaker, we have raised a point of order on the Chief Whip ...
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: That is in the Constitution.
Mr G A GARDEE: Can we be allowed to raise a point of order?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: The House may also raise ...
The SPEAKER: No, you can’t, while there is another speaker on the floor raising a point of order.
Mr G A GARDEE: But his point of order has now taken 10 minutes! We are listening to a sermon.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: ... under section 102 of the Constitution, a motion of no confidence in the President. These are the constitutional mechanisms that can be used by any member in this House, including those in the EFF. Therefore, the call for the President not to address and speak in this House is firstly, entirely unconstitutional and not informed by any laws of this country; and secondly, not in accordance with our Rules that have brought the President here to answer Questions. [Interjections.]
People of this country want to hear what the President has to say on the Questions that have been put to him by the members of this House. [Interjections.] As the ANC, we are here to listen to the answers of the President on the Questions that we have put to him. Thank you, hon Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Hon members, on the matter raised by the leader of the EFF about the letter that we received at midnight last night, let me quote from the response that I have sent to them which they have received before coming to this House:
“With reference to the matter of the disciplinary proceedings against the President, I wish to refer you to my comprehensive response dated 03 May 2016. That response is attached for reference. In essence my response dealt with the provisions of sections 89 and 102 of the Constitution which deal with the procedures by which the President may be removed from office.”
Therefore, hon members I, really, am not able to accede to the request of the EFF and their point of order. The President is before this House in accordance with the law and in accordance with the Constitution and therefore, I wish to proceed. [Interjections.]
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Speaker, hon Speaker, may I please get your attention? Concerning the response which you sent at five minutes to two o’clock, though you have received the letter at midnight, last night, Rule 11 of the recently adopted Rules of the NA says that:
“Application to President of the Republic and other non-members: 1. These Rules and orders of the House apply as appropriate to the President of the Republic as they apply to a Minister.
2. Reference of these Rules and orders of the House to a member or a Minister must, where applicable, be construed as a reference also to the President of the Republic and to the Deputy President or a Minister or a Deputy Minister who is not a member of the House.”
In your response you said that you cannot take disciplinary action against the President because he is not a member of the House. But, the Rules that we operate with here, say that the Rules of the NA are applicable to him. He has misled Parliament on many occasions. He said that he has got a bond in the Nkandla construction. The bond only came now from the Venda Business Society, VBS. It was not there. [Interjections.]
It means that ...
The SPEAKER: Hon Shivhambu, ...
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... there must action on action on him that must be taken.
The SPEAKER: Hon Shivhambu, hon Shivhambu, ...
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: So, that is the issue of principles that we are ...
The SPEAKER: Hon Shivhambu, hon Shivhambu, you are indirectly ...
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: How do we deal with the President ...
The SPEAKER: Hon Shivhambu, please take your seat, hon Shivhambu.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... who is not respecting ...
The SPEAKER: You are busy trying to compel the House to deal with business that is not before it. [Interjections.] The business before the House is Questions to the President and the NA Programming Committee has programmed that this afternoon we are taking answers from the Questions to the President. Hon Shivambu, I appeal to you to take your seat and allow the House to proceed.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: But Speaker, there is a principle issue here. You cannot let the person who has committed crime to be unquestionable. It is a basic principle.
The SPEAKER: Hon Shivhabu, we will not deal with any business here, this afternoon either than Questions to the President. I appeal to you to take your seat.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: It is a basic principle that we had to adhered to. It is what the Rules say.
The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, take your seat.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Parliament is a rules-based organisation that gives effect to what the Constitution sets out as guidelines for us. I am sympathetic to the views of Malema and hon Shivhambu and believe that the man before us today is not befitting of the office he holds. [Interjections.] He has broken trust with the people of South Africa and this House but nonetheless, I believe despite his actions and his partly payment of his admission of guilt fine this week in relation to the Nkandla matter, it is our duty as parliamentarians to hold him accountable.
In terms of the Constitution and in terms of the Rules of this House and as poignant as I find him is as poignant as we find his behaviour, we want the answers to the questions that we have on the Order Paper today and we therefore want the man who stands there with on the podium today to answer those questions as it is his constitutional duty and responsibility. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: I therefore, ...
Ms H O HLOPHE: Hon Speaker, just a follow up on what commissar hon Shivhambu has also ...
The SPEAKER: Hon Hlophe, I did not even give you a chance to ...
Ms H O HLOPHE: Please recognise me, hon Speaker.
The SPEAKER: No, no hon hon members of the EFF. I would now like to prevail on you that you allow this House to proceed.
Ms H O HLOPHE: Speaker, I just want to get your indulgence in terms of the Rule ...
The SPEAKER: No, hon Hlophe, I am not giving you any indulgence.
Ms H O HLOPHE: I am asking you to recognise me because it is in terms of the Rule 11.
The SPEAKER: I actually would like to because your leader already said that you are not going to allow the President to speak this afternoon.
Ms H O HLOPHE: No, it is not true Speaker but...
The SPEAKER: On the other hand, we are determined that the President will answer the questions this afternoon in this House.
Ms H O HLOPHE: Speaker, my point is that – just hear me out.
The SPEAKER: So, hon Hlophe, please take your seat.
Ms H O HLOPHE: Speaker, please hear me out before you just shut me down. It is on the following up.
The SPEAKER: Hon Hlophe, hon Hlophe, there is no following up, take your seat.
Mr G A GARDEE: Madam Speaker, we want to assist you and the House, so that at a right moment, the man seated there is able to address this House. We are assisting you ...
The SPEAKER: Hon Gardee, I did not give you an opportunity to take the floor.
Mr G A GARDEE: We are requesting you ...
The SPEAKER: I did not give you the opportunity to take the floor.
Mr G A GARDEE: I raised my hand.
The SPEAKER: Hon Gardee, hon Gardee.
Mr G A GARDEE: I did raise my hand, Madam Speaker.
The SPEAKER: I did not recognise you.
Mr G A GARDEE: Recognise me, Madam Speaker.
The SPEAKER: No, hon Gardee, hon Gardee, allow me to run this programme of this afternoon as agreed by the Programme Committee. We will now proceed with the business. This matter that are you raising and all the attendant issues have been thoroughly addressed in previous letters, the letter of last night and in this afternoon sitting.
IsiXhosa:
Nks N V MENTE: Somlomo, ndicela ...
English:
The SPEAKER: I am not taking any further points on this matter.
IsiXhosa:
Nks N V MENTE: Somlomo, ndicela undimamele phantsi kwecandelo lama- 89 loMgaqo-siseko.
USOMLOMO: Ohloniphekileyo Mente, ndicela uhlale phantsi sisi.
Nks N V MENTE: Hayi mama, ndicela sicazulule icandelo lama-89 loMgaqo-siseko othetha ngoMongameli oselungelweni lokuba ame phambi kwabantu. Icandelo 89(1)a uyasixelela ukuba nawuphi na umntu owaphula uMgaqo-siseko akanalo ilungelo lokuma apha. [Uwelewele.]
English:
The SPEAKER: Hon Mente, you have addressed the House without permission and I want to warn you that if hon members are not going to co-operate because we have work to do this afternoon. We have the hon the President who is here to answer questions and we are here having hon members who are waiting to listen to answers to their questions. You are the people that seem not to want for order to prevail and for the business to be proceeded with. I am appealing to you to co-operate.
Mr M M DLAMINI: Speaker, ...
The SPEAKER: I have not recognised you. No, take your seat.
Mr M M DLAMINI: I want you to co-operate so that I can sit down. I just want you to answer one question.
The SPEAKER: Take your seat.
Mr M M DLAMINI: Are you going to allow this thief to speak to us. That is all I want to ask. Thank you, that is all. I am going to co-operate and take my seat. So, you are going to allow this thief to speak to us. Okay.
Ms L MATHYS: Hon Speaker, I have held my hand up for a while. Will you please recognise me? You know, I am new to the NA. So, I need your guidance on this matter. You were referring to Rule 11 of our wonderful rules of Parliament and you have not explained to us why you are not charging the President and why are we allowing him to talk here. I just do not understand and this matter has been going on forever and a day. [Interjections.]
We wrote to you in the middle of the night so that you can know that we will come and ask you why you are not charging the President. Can you please just respond? You are looking very beautiful today, by the way, but we would like to have a response from you. [Laughter.] Please Speaker, why is the President not being charged? It is a serious matter, the President is even laughing there because it is a joke. The ANC is laughing because everything is a joke. [Interjections.]
THE SPEAKER: Hon Mathys, can you please take your seat? [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: I really would like to appeal to the hon members in the benches of the EFF to co-operate with today’s programme of this honourable House. I appeal to you, hon members, to co-operate. [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: Just answer our questions!
The SPEAKER: Hon members, your questions are introducing other business and are forcibly trying to make the House proceed on a different basis to the one agreed to by the National Assembly Programming Committee, on which there also sits a member of the EFF when we take these decisions. Yet hon members come here today and they say that the hon President must not answer questions. [Interjections.]
Dr H CHEWANE: Speaker, I rise on a point of order.
The SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
Dr H CHEWANE: The point of order is that we want to co-operate with this process, but I think maybe what would be fair would be for you to give clarity to this House, and perhaps even to the people of this country, that it is okay for a sitting President to violate the Constitution, and have nothing happen. If you can clarify that, then we will co-operate.
The SPEAKER: Hon Chewane ...
Dr H CHEWANE: Can you please ... [Inaudible.] ... on that matter ...
The SPEAKER: Hon Chewane ...
Dr H CHEWANE: Is it okay for a sitting President to violate the Constitution and nothing happens, and even in Parliament ...
The SPEAKER: Hon Chewane ...
Dr H CHEWANE: ... when we rise to seek clarity, we are not allowed the space. It is okay for a Parliament to rubberstamp and listen to a President who violates ...
The SPEAKER: Hon Chewane, the issues you are raising have been thoroughly dealt with by this honourable House.
Dr H CHEWANE: Which platform was that? Because the President is accountable ... [Inaudible.]
The SPEAKER: The National Assembly has had debates on the issues you are raising. I appeal to you to sit down.
Dr H CHEWANE: But can I speak on just one issue?
The SPEAKER: Take your seat! Take your seat, hon Chewane, when I am talking to you!
Dr H CHEWANE: Is it okay ... [Inaudible.] No, is it correct ... [Inaudible.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Chewane, take your seat when I am talking to you.
Hon members, I am not taking another hon member on these matters ... [Interjections.] ... because you are wasting the time of the House. [Interjections.] We have now spent 30 minutes ... [Interjections.] We have now spent 30 minutes ... [Interjections.]
Hon Shivambu, take your seat!
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Speaker, I want to ...
The SPEAKER: Take your seat, hon Shivambu!
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... clarify some things that were said, that the EFF has agreed ...
The SPEAKER: Take your seat, hon Shivambu!
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... to all these things. We have never agreed to such things.
The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, take your seat!
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: We brought it to your attention even in the meeting that you called yourself that ... [Inaudible.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, can you please leave the Chamber.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... the President must come and address us here ... [Inaudible.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, leave the Chamber! [Interjections.] Leave the Chamber, hon Shivambu! [Interjections.]
Mr S J MALEMA: On a point of order, Speaker.
The SPEAKER: And if you are refusing to leave the Chamber, I am going to ask the Serjeant-at-arms to assist you and show you the door so that you can leave the Chamber and allow us to proceed ...
Mr S J MALEMA: On a point of order, Speaker.
The SPEAKER: ... with the business of this afternoon.
Mr S J MALEMA: Speaker, I’m going to help you to get hon Shivambu to leave the House. [Interjections.] Just listen to me. [Interjections.]
Sepedi:
Ga se ešo ba go bitša, mma. Ga se ešo ba go bitša. [Tsenoganong.] Aowa, aowa, ga se a go bitše; ema pele. [Tsenoganong.] Re kgethilwe, “man”, “eish”! Lenaena, mara! [Tsenoganong.] Ema pele.
English:
The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu ...
Mr S J MALEMA: Hon Speaker, can I address you, please.
The SPEAKER: Can I ask the Serjeant-at-arms to proceed to hon Shivambu so that he can leave the House and allow me to proceed with the business of the House.
Mr S J MALEMA: Hon Speaker, we have a motion after the President’s Question Time that we want to debate. To ask hon Shivambu to leave the House even when he has not defied you ... he was not defying you. He was making the point that they never agreed in the Chief Whip’s Forum.
The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, can you please leave the House.
Mr S J MALEMA: Hon Speaker, please hear me out before ...
The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, you yourself are on your feet addressing me without even ... [Inaudible.]
Mr S J MALEMA: Oh please recognise me!
The SPEAKER: I have not given you permission to stand and address ... [Interjections.] Hon Shivambu, please leave the House.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Speaker ...
The SPEAKER: Can you leave the House!
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Speaker, we have a motion today which you are going to need in terms of what must happen in this House. Rule 53 that you are using to remove me does not say what you are saying should happen now. You are again engaging in an illegal activity. [Interjections.]
Mr S J MALEMA: Hon Speaker ... [Interjections.] ... since you don’t want to recognise me, we are going to leave this House ... [Interjections.] ... because we are not prepared to listen to this criminal. But we will wait outside. When the criminal finishes speaking, we are coming back to continue with the business of this Parliament. We are just going to the loo because we are avoiding the criminal. We will come back when the criminal is gone. Thank you.
An HON MEMBER: You can continue, Zupta!
An HON MEMBER: Speaker ... order!
The SPEAKER: What is the point of order?
An HON MEMBER: Order, Speaker!
The SPEAKER: Yes, who is speaking now?
Mr G S RADEBE: This side, Speaker. It is hon Radebe.
IsiZulu:
Nks M S KHAWULA: Sikhathele yilesi sigebengu esiphambi kwethu. Asihambe siye ejele.
English:
Zuma must go to jail, prison.
IsiXhosa:
Nks N P SONTI: Liyagxothwa naseThuli House elo sela lenu!
English:
The SPEAKER: Yes, hon Chief Whip, can you please sit ...
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY: Hon Speaker, we just want to put it on record that to call a member of this House a thief and a criminal is not in keeping with Rule 85 which says that no member may impute improper motives to any other member or cast personal reflection upon a member’s integrity, or dignity, or verbally abuse a member in any other way. The Rule further says that a member who wishes to bring any improper or unethical conduct on the part of another member to the attention of the House may do so only by way of a separate substantive motion comprising a clearly formulated and properly substantiated charge that, in the opinion of the Speaker, prima facie warrants consideration by the House. The Rule ends by saying that this that I’ve read applies also to reflections upon the President, Ministers and Deputy Ministers who are not members of this House.
So we have been abused and abused. The President has been subjected to abuse which our Rules do not allow. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: I now would like to ... [Interjections.] Yes, hon Steenhuisen?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, I think it is important that we do point out, once again, that this House and its actions are also subject to rulings of the
The SPEAKER: Hon members, I think the Rule that was quoted by the hon Chief Whip of the Majority Party is simply trying to help us regulate our relations – our working relationships – as honourable Members of Parliament.
Hon members, I would like to get us back to Question 1 which was asked by the hon Khoarai, and the hon the President was about to take the podium.
Question 13:
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Madam Speaker, a recent Cabinet lekgotla assessed the implementation of the National Development Plan, NDP, which underpins the Medium-Term Strategic Framework 2014-2019 and, in particular, the Nine-Point Plan.
The focus at the lekgotla was on key programmes and projects to deepen the implementation of the Nine-Point Plan in the next financial year, to ensure high impact, and to help reignite growth and stimulate job creation. The Department of Public Enterprises and National Treasury will consolidate the procurement of locomotives into a single organisation under Transnet. This will ensure efficiency and compliance with the localisation requirements.
We also looked at introducing legislative amendments to implement the 30% set aside by March 2017. This will unlock the potential of small, medium and microenterprises, SMMEs, co-operatives and the township and rural enterprises. Government will continue to focus on labour-intensive sectors, including the need for various mechanisms to support a greater impact on jobs, such as the use of our incentive programmes for, amongst others, the clothing, textiles, leather and footwear value chain, agro-processing and business process services.
We agreed to accelerate the successful ocean economy intervention to expand coastal and marine tourism in order to realise significant job creation. To resolve the energy challenges in our country, the Department of Energy will complete the integrated energy plan and integrated resource plan for electricity by the end of this year. This will help provide certainty on electricity pricing and investment in generation capacity. I chair the Interministerial Committee on Investment that will co-ordinate 40 priority investment projects across government. These 40 projects include agro-processing and agri-parks, energy and infrastructure, manufacturing and services projects.
The Department of Trade and Industry will finalise the strategy for the deployment of locally developed technologies by the end of this year. Furthermore, the Department of Science and Technology and National Treasury will secure additional funds to sustain and expand the Sector Innovation Fund through the economic competitiveness support package.
Priority continues to be placed on water saving and minimising water losses. This month will witness agreements being completed with municipalities experiencing high water losses. This will be done to facilitate the placement of water agents and plumbers trained by government. We launched the programme last year to train 15 000 young people to perform this task. This is important for youth development and empowerment as well.
The Presidential Infrastructure Co-ordinating Commission presented its report. An action plan to ensure greater expenditure on municipal infrastructure maintenance and to enforce proper financial asset management will be developed and implemented to extend the lifespan and quality of our infrastructure assets. National Treasury and the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation in the Presidency presented their recommendations on work done in the past year to align the national Budget to the National Development Plan as well as to the Medium-Term Strategic Framework.
Our government has identified a set of budget priorities for the 2017-18 financial year, which focuses on maintaining infrastructure spend, strengthening support for skills development, and maintaining real levels of spending on the poor. The lekgotla also reflected on progress made and the next steps in the reform of state-owned companies. The implementation of the stabilisation programme has progressed with varying degrees. The Interministerial Committee on State-Owned Enterprises chaired by Deputy President Cyril Ramaphosa will continue to oversee 13 specific interventions.
Madam Speaker, government alone will not reignite growth. We welcome input from labour, business and also political parties aimed at the improved implementation of the National Development Plan through all these programmes and interventions. I thank you.
Mr L P KHOARAI: Speaker, I would like to thank the President for the answer. Can the President tell us, since we are left with a few months before the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, and the state of the nation address next year, what specific actions are planned from identified sectors to take South Africa on a sustainable socioeconomic trajectory? Thank you.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, sorry. Could the hon member just repeat?
Mr L P KHOARAI: Since we are left with a few months before the MTSF period and the state of the nation address for next year, what are the specific action plans from identified sectors to take South Africa on a sustainable socioeconomic trajectory?
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, of course, as I have said, the lekgotla met and had discussions. Part of what the lekgotla was doing was to look at what we need to do, and we took decisions on a number of issues, some of which I have just touched upon here, as the actions we will be taking.
Firstly, what we have been looking at is how we reignite the economy, and we have followed on the matter of the Nine-Point Plan, for example, that we need to continue with that, because it is being implemented, and do any other thing that will help to process those kinds of actions so that we boost the economy and economic activities. That will allow us to grow the economy and create jobs. These are matters we have taken action on. We have meant to take decisions, and we are implementing those decisions. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr D J MAYNIER: Speaker, through you to the President: What are the nine points in your nine-point action plan to ignite the economy and create jobs in South Africa?
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, we have talked about the Nine-Point Plan many times in this Parliament. [Interjections.] The speaker is very much aware of the Nine-Point Plan we have talked about.
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members! Are you listening to the answer? [Interjections.] You started making a noise even before he started. [Interjections.] Continue, hon President.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: It includes agriculture, amongst others, and there are many. [Interjections.] You have seen them. We have talked about them. [Interjections.]
Mr D J MAYNIER: Speaker ...
The SPEAKER: No, you asked your follow-up question, hon Maynier ...
Mr D J MAYNIER: On a point of order ...
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: ... and it has been answered. [Interjections.]
Mr D J MAYNIER: On a point of order ...
The SPEAKER: You have asked your supplementary question.
Mr D J MAYNIER: On a point of order, Speaker: The President is clearly clueless about the nine points in his Nine-Point Plan ...
The SPEAKER: No, hon member! That is not a point of order.
Mr D J MAYNIER: ... which is terrifying. [Interjections.]
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Speaker, I will mention some of the points. The President, in his reply, mentioned some of the points, and, in a sense, this is a good idea to begin with – to address some of the key portfolios, such as Energy and Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries. However, hon President, you didn’t mention one of the important ones – moderating workplace conflicts.
Won’t you agree, sir, and both you and business should be concerned about insufficient growth, that there should be a new alliance between government, business and organised labour? There should be put an end to the notion of labour seeing business and even government, for instance, as the enemy. Unions seem to focus more on their own agendas and are in the process of promoting job losses rather than creating jobs. How do you suggest we address this, Mr President? Labour conflict seems to be at the core of South Africa’s inability to grow the economy. Thank you.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, we have addressed the issue of working together and co-ordinating our thinking with business, labour and government with regard to the economy. We even included civil society. The point we have made is asking, given the fact that the economy is not growing sufficiently, what we can do to address that matter. Indeed, agreements have emerged – that we should work together. Of course, between labour and business, there is a continuous relationship. One of the challenges, for example, is what we can do if the economy is not growing at a level expected. [Interjections.] What then happened, and we had taken action before when the economy experienced challenges, was that all the sectors agreed to put aside some funds so that instead of the workers being taken out, they can, during that time, be skilled in the mean time. We have done so, and we have reached agreements.
We have also met to discuss the critical things. We have also presented the Nine-Point Plan as one of ... [Interjections.] ... as one of the issues. We have to work together. Business has to invest in those sectors we identified, and there has been an agreement between the different sectors. Thank you, Madam Speaker. [Interjections.]
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Speaker, through you to the President: With regard to the Nine-Point Plan ... [Interjections.] ... the emphasis has always been on rural development, land reform and ensuring that economic development takes place. However, we find that the land reform process, and rural development itself, has clearly failed. Could you perhaps tell us what we are going to do differently to try and improve the quality of life of the people in the poorest of areas, the areas where rural development should take place throughout the country? Thank you.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, the rural development programme has not failed. In fact, throughout the country, there are projects being run by the people, a variety of programmes throughout the country. [Interjections.] We have been launching programmes. We have been visiting some of the programmes, for example in agriculture. [Laughter.] People have taken it on themselves to plough. They have been reaping and are now sending their products to the markets. We have been in different places where people say there is no longer a shortage of food in the areas where they live. So, a lot of work has been undertaken by Rural Development and Land Reform in conjunction with Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries. In the rural areas, there is thus a development that can be identified.
I don’t think we have reached a point where we ask what else we can do or what alternative methods are available. The methods we use at the moment work. It is being accepted by the people who participate in those programmes. [Interjections.] Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Question 14:
14. The Leader of the Opposition (DA) to ask the President of the Republic:
In light of the fact that there is already an Inter-Ministerial Committee on state-owned entities, which has been chaired by the Deputy President, Mr MC Ramaphosa, since December 2014, how will the Presidential State-Owned Companies Coordinating Council interact with this body? NO2027E
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, I appointed the Interministerial Committee, IMC, which is chaired by Deputy President Cyril Ramaphosa to preside over the implementation of the Presidential Review Committee’s, PRC, recommendations. In a recently-held Cabinet lekgotla, the ANC recommended that a Presidential State-Owned Companies, SOC’s, Co-ordinating Council be established to give effect to the Presidential Review Committee’s recommendations of the SOE Council of Ministers. The recommendation to institute the SOE Council of Ministers was made by the Presidential Review Committee on State-Owned Enterprises, which was appointed in 2010. The PRC’s recommendations were approved by Cabinet in April 2013 and were released to the public.
The Presidential SOCs Co-ordinating Council is one of the measures that are being introduced as part of a comprehensive refurbishment of the shareholder model of state-owned companies, in order to improve their functioning. The President also chairs other co-ordinating structures such as the Presidential Infrastructure Co-ordinating Commission, which oversees the implementation of major infrastructure projects across the three spheres of government - national, provincial, municipal level. The President also chairs the Interministerial Committee on Investment, which co-ordinates government’s efforts at attracting investment.
The role of these structures is only to co-ordinate and supervise and ensure that they all work together and not in isolation. It is not to directly run projects or take over the responsibility of line functioning departments. Any such assumption is incorrect. The Cabinet will apply its mind further to the proposal of the IMC. At this stage, no finality has been reached and there are no terms of reference or any other governance structure for the council that has been finalised.
Let me reiterate that the Interministerial Committee, chaired by Deputy President Ramaphosa, remains responsible for overseeing the stabilisation and reform of state-owned enterprises.
The proposal to establish the Presidential SOCs Co-ordinating Council is aimed at assisting to ensure improved oversight and co-ordination of state-owned companies. We welcome inputs from stakeholders on how to tackle this important task of ensuring that state-owned companies become effective instruments of ensuring radical economic transformation and to improve the lives of our people. Thank you.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon Speaker, surely, in your current new role, I think we would all agree that it then becomes absolutely critical that our first point of intervention starts with South African Airways, as a state-owned enterprise. Without doubt, it has become quite clear that the South African Airways is in financial and operational difficulty, but this whole process of the South African Airways has been chaired by a woman you might know very well, Mr President, Ms Dudusile.
I am interested to learn ... It is a fact that her very disastrous performance has led the airline to the brink of absolute disaster. Her name was not even submitted by Treasury when names, in fact, were submitted for board members. I am interested to learn and so is the rest of South Africa, what confidence you have in her to turn around an airline at such a time as this. Or, ultimately, do you believe that she is the fit and proper person to guide the SAA to a more prosperous scenario? So, I would like to hear what you think of her role in the SAA, seeing that she was not even nominated by Treasury. [Applause.] Thank you.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Firstly, the SAA has been in difficulties for a long time. It is not a new matter. At one point, we had to find an expert from the United States to come and help. It did not solve the problem of the SAA. So, it is not a new thing that the SAA is in difficulties. We have been trying in many ways and there have been different CEOs and chairpersons in the SAA. It is not the first time. [Interjections.]
I have to hear who the chair was who succeeded to take the SAA out of trouble. Therefore, the work done by the person you are mentioning has been to try to get the SAA out of trouble. [Interjections.] They have been working together with the Treasury for a long time. Therefore, as an individual, I don’t see any difference between what she has done and what other chairpersons have done before. [Interjections.]
The SAA has been in trouble. We are trying to get the SAA out of trouble. Therefore, the current board was submitted to Cabinet recently and the Cabinet has approved it. I was not even there because I was out of the country. [Interjections.] I did not even argue in the Cabinet. The Cabinet took a decision on the basis of them looking at the board. They have taken a decision, which means that Cabinet has confidence in all the members that were adopted. [Interjections.] Yes, I do. [Interjections.] I do. I have answered your question. I do. I have seen her working like all other chairs. [Interjections.] Thank you.
Dr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Speaker, ek wil eintlik ’n vorige vraag gevra het, maar ek sal ...
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Give me just a minute, so that I can hear you, my brother.
Dr P J GROENEWALD: Terwyl die President sy gehoorapparatjie regkry, wil ek eintlik by hom gehoor het ... Sy agb Minister Nkwinti sê 90% van die landelike ontwikkeling was ’n mislukking, maar ek dink dit was ...
The SPEAKER: That will be lost because the hon President is trying to put on the earpiece.
Dr P J GROENEWALD: Wat die agb President eintlik hier sê is dat die Interministriële Komitee, onder leierskap van die Adjunkpresident het nie sy werk behoorlik gedoen nie. Die vraag is: Hoekom moet daar nou ’n koordinerende komitee, onder die voorsitterskap van die President geskep word, maar hy het nie eens tyd om genoeg in die land te wees nie? Hoekom kon die Adjunkpresident nie direk aan hom gerapporteer het wat die probleme is nie? Wat gaan hy andersins kan doen om die probleme in die openbare entiteite op te los? Dankie.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Madam Speaker, as I indicated, the Deputy President was asked to lead a ministerial committee that was looking at the Presidential Review Committee that had made recommendations and he is dealing with those matters. It is that ministerial committee that looked at this issue and made this recommendation. On a different kind of scale of the committees or the departments or the enterprises departments that we are talking about, this recommendation is putting all of them together.
The first one, the one that the Deputy President is chairing was looking at the recommendations that were made by a committee aside. He has also been chairing others that are dealing with specific areas of work. It is that committee that says all the enterprises departments should be put together to be co-ordinated by a bigger committee, which must be chaired by the President, as he chairs for an example, the Infrastructure Co-ordinating Commission, not to run it, but co-ordinate it. It is different from the matters that the Deputy President is chairing. So, that is the difference, I think, we should make. Thank you.
Prof N M KHUBISA: Hon Speaker, hon President, I think the establishment of these committees is not just a cosmetic exercise, but it is meant to deal with the perennial issues and challenges that have been there. In our own way, what do you believe are the main challenges facing these state-owned companies and how can they be dealt with, with immediate effect in a short and long-term period? Thank you very much.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: I think what we have been saying is that the state-owned enterprises are working at times in silos, in different kind of ways. As much as many are working well, others might have not have worked well. However, we thought it was important. And the proposal is that we co-ordinate them, so that they can work better, pull together their efforts on matters and co-ordinate instead of one working in one direction and the other in another direction. That will help us to supervise them in a co-ordinated fashion. It will be different from them just working on their own or having to do co-ordination on their own. This time around, the Presidency will supervise and see where the weaknesses are and what we need to do to address those weaknesses. Thank you.
Mr B H HOLOMISA: Madam Speaker, Mr President, it is not so much about the structural rearrangement of the state entities, but more about the lack of trust and confidence in your leadership, sadly, by some of your Cabinet members and your party structures who are calling for you to be recalled. How is your chairpersonship of the envisaged council going to build the lost confidence in what your Deputy calls, government in war with itself?
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Firstly, I am not sure that the enterprises have been at war with themselves. I am not aware of that. Secondly, I have not heard that the Ministers saying that they have no confidence in the President. I have heard voices of people raising their own views and they have the right to raise their views. Even those who are speaking out there have not explained what the issues are. Therefore, I can’t spend my time addressing these issues.
Politicians get involved in that political activity. We are very much accustomed to that. So, that is not the issue. We are dealing with enterprises here to make the departments of government work and to make enterprises work.
Whether a person has a view about you or anybody else is a different matter. It does not affect what the government is doing. However, politicians have the right to raise issues about you, about me, about anyone. Thank you. [Applause.]
Question 15:
15. Mr H M Z Mmemezi (ANC) to ask the President of the Republic:
With reference to the Inter-Ministerial Committee on Investment that has identified 40 projects across the clusters of government that will have a high-scale economic impact, (a) which of the projects will be implemented in the next two years and (b) how will communities benefit from the specified projects in the next two years? NO2025E
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Madam Speaker, government, through the Inter-Ministerial Committee on Investment Promotion, has identified 40 priority investment projects across government. These 40 projects include agro-processing, agri-parks, energy, infrastructure, manufacturing and services. They were selected based on having a high scale economic impact linked to the nine-point plan, being able to takeoff within the next two years and the ability to attract further investment and community benefits.
The Inter-Ministerial Committee on Investment Promotion will further discuss these projects and thereafter approve them for implementation. The top 10 projects that are under consideration for implementation in the next two years are the following: First, the construction of the Umzimvubu dam and water project in the Eastern Cape; second, the Beijing Automobile International Corporation BAIC - a new automotive plant at Coega in Port Elizabeth; third, Cipla – a new biologic plant for medicines at Dube Trade Port in KwaZulu-Natal; fourth, Anheuser-Busch, AB, Inbev - a new agricultural project for barley and hops and building the agro supply chain in North West, Limpopo, Northern Cape and Western Cape provinces; fifth, Clover - the establishment of a multi-disciplinary industrial park to grow the dairy industry and value chain in KwaZulu-Natal and Eastern Cape provinces; sixth, Free State and Eastern Cape apple production which is part of Distell’s Apple Juice Concentrate Project for apple production in Harrismith, in the Free State and Elliot in the Eastern Cape; seventh, Qolora Agriculture Development Zone – the development of a marine aqua development zone for Abalone Farming in Qolora Eastern Cape; eighth, Ngaka Modiri Molema Agri-Park - the development of an agri-hub in Springbokpan North West; ninth, Transnet offshore supply base - the development of an offshore supply base in the port of Saldanha in the Western Cape by Transnet; tenth, Metallurgical cluster Musina – the development of a metallurgical cluster for mineral beneficiation and a special economic zone in the Musina and Makhado corridor in Limpopo.
Communities will benefit from economic development of the areas attracting further investment, job creation, better infrastructure and opportunities for small, medium and micro-sized enterprises, SMMEs, co-operative development and food security particularly in the agro-processing and agri-parks projects. Thank you Madam Speaker. [Applause.]
IsiXhosa:
Mnu H M Z MEMEZI: Ndiyabulela Somlomo. Enkosi kakhulu Mongameli ngale mpendulo yakho kwaye ndinethemba elikhulu lokuba isizwe sakuthi nabantu abanamehlo okubona bayabona, nabaneendlebe zokuva, bayeva. Le misebenzi yokwakhiwa kweziseko eziluncedo nophuhliso, ekulo lonke eli lizwe, yimisebenzi eluncedo kakhulu. Sicela uMongameli ohloniphekileyo ukuba acacisele le Ndlu nesizwe jikelele: Ingaba urhulumente uza kwenza ntoni ukuqinisekisa ukuba kuyo yonke le misebenzi edalwayo, abahlali nabantu abahluphekayo kuwo onke amaphondo baza kuyifumana na; ingaba baza kubuya bathathe inxaxheba kumathuba ezoqoqosho njengoosomashishini abadala imisebenzi ngokwabo ngenxa yokuqeqeshwa kwezi projekthi zikarhulumente kaKhongolose? Ndiyabulela.
UMONGAMELI WESIZWE: Lungu elihloniphekileyo, njengokuba sisenza lo msebenzi singurhulumente kuwo onke amaphondo, loo nto siyenza ngenjongo yokudala imisebenzi nokuba abantu abakula maphondo bathathe inxaxheba kwaye baxhamle kuloo nto esiyenzayo. Yeyona njongo leyo eyenza ukuba singalali, sihle sisenyuka kuba sifuna abantu bakowethu baphangele kutshintshe nobomi babo bube ngcono.
Bukhona ke ubungqina baloo nto kuba ukuba uya kwiindawo apho sele senze khona iinzame zokudala imisebenzi uya kufumana abantu bethu bephangela kwaye besitsho ukuba iimeko azisafani nayizolo. Yinto ke esiyenzayo nengqinwa ngabantu bakowethu, esisebenza nabo nababekade behlupheka. Aba bantu bayalibona ingomso labo ukuba liyeza kulo rhulumente. Injalo indaba. Ndiyabulela. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: Mr President, just for your future reference and information, point nine in the nine-point plan is Operation Phakisa; and one of the projects identified in Operation Phakisa was the Durban dig out port, a critical infrastructure investment project which I would argue, after Medupi and Kusile, is probably the most important infrastructure project in South Africa at the moment. Yet, we have now heard from Transnet that the construction on the Durban dig out port will only commence in 2021 and will only be completed in 2025. It is being pushed back some seven years from when you announced it in your state of the nation address.
Now, given that and what we know about the critical role that infrastructure investment plays in creating jobs and kick starting the economy, how can we take anything you have said in your reply to this question seriously when that fundamental important project has been delayed so badly? I would remind you, Mr President, that this party - the DA - has committed to spend 10% of the Gross Domestic Product, GDP, on infrastructure investment and where we are in government we do that. [Interjections.] Your party on the other hand, since you have become President, Sir, have under spent on infrastructure in every single year since 2009 and now this critical project you are delaying even further. How can we take everything you have said today seriously when that is your track record? Thank you.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Madam Speaker, we have taken very serious decisions with regard to infrastructure and we are doing infrastructure in South Africa. It cannot be true that we have done nothing much as we have taken decisions. We have done a lot and we have put a lot of money as well. On the project that the hon member is talking about, I may not have the details of the reason why it is being pushed back a bit. [Interjections.] But there must be very good a reason if that has been taken as a decision. You are not saying that the project is cancelled. You know there are many other issues including the economic problems of the country. However, I do not want to guess and say, this is a specific reason why it has been pushed back if indeed it has been. But this is a project we look forward to that it will further expand the economic activities of the country. There may be very good reasons ... [Interjections.] ... that were taken into consideration. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Madam Speaker, to the hon President, while the Inter-Ministerial Committee on Investment will provide some relief to foreign investors especially after your assenting to the disastrous Protection of Investment Act earlier this year, my question is: As the Inter-Ministerial Committee on Investment spends on all clusters of government - 40 projects on all clusters - does such a wide sweep not land itself in principle to ineffectiveness? Should the Inter-Ministerial Committee on Investment not rather be concentrating on a few key portfolios to bolster foreign investment? Thank you.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Madam Speaker, he was talking a little bit away from the microphone and I couldn’t get half of what he said at the beginning.
The SPEAKER: Can you repeat, hon Esterhuizen?
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Madam Speaker, I said that the Inter-Ministerial Committee on Investment provide some relief to foreign investors especially after assenting to the disastrous Protection of Investment Act earlier this year, my question is: As the Inter-Ministerial Committee on Investment spends on all clusters of government, which is 40 projects across all clusters, does such a wide sweep not land itself in principle to ineffectiveness? Should the Inter-Ministerial Committee on Investment not rather be concentrating on a few key portfolios to bolster foreign investment?
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: I think I did indicate in my presentation that the Inter-Ministerial Committee on Investment has identified 40 projects and it has prioritised 10 of them. We are not saying we are going to do 40 projects at the same time; we are specifically focusing on 10. I do not think that means we are therefore burdening the committee. We are focusing on 10 projects that we think can urgently attract investment and not the whole 40. Thereafter we will bring the next lot etc. We prioritising what we believe can attract investment quicker and on what we can work on to ensure that they are prepared, they are bankable etc.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon Speaker, we talk about new projects to be implemented shortly, however, the poultry industry is already complaining with the cheap imports that are coming into the country; there is a great possibility that a lot of them will close down. And the other issue with regards to economic development is the lack of urgency in developing the leather, textile, clothing and plastic industry and we are emphasising on bringing in cheap products from China which is creating more joblessness in South Africa. So, could you please tell me, Mr President, on the one hand we want to boost economic development and on the other we are bringing in these cheap imports that are really creating less jobs or as a result thereof many people are now beginning to lose their jobs. Thank you.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Madam Speaker, the government has been working very hard to address the issue of cheap goods that are coming in and to workout rules that will reduce such kind of actions so that we can allow our own textile etc to develop. Countries carrying out those kinds of actions are those we deal with. The Department of Trade and Industry in particular has been working very hard and have been succeeding to reduce the volume of such imports. I am sure you will agree with me that we couldn’t do that overnight.
Those are issues we have been concerned and that we are discussing about with those countries in our country-to-country relationship. I do not think we can achieve that in a day. There are also many other neighbouring countries that are importing such goods. Given the fact that there is much economic activity in this country, such goods do find their way in. But this is a matter that we are addressing, particularly through the Department of Trade and Industry. Thank you, Madam Speaker
Question 16:
16. Mr M L D Ntombela (ANC) to ask the President of the Republic:
Whilst understanding that the spheres of government are separate, yet interrelated and interdependent in their roles and that these spheres are expected to work together in the spirit of cooperative governance, and that through the oversight work of Parliament the experience of committees on a number of occasions is that this conceptual and constitutional understanding is often not adhered to and the spirit of cooperative governance often lacking, (a) what additional reforms are being considered to improve effective governance of the State and (b) will these reforms include a greater role for the masses of our people who are often the recipients of poor service delivery because of the aforementioned? NO2026E
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: Madam Speaker, the Constitution provides for the establishment of three spheres of government, ranging from national, provincial and municipal level. These spheres are distinctive, interdependent and interrelated. The three spheres have to exercise their powers and functions in such a manner that their policies and executive actions can be effectively synchronised to help facilitate efficient and effective delivery of basic services rather than competing against one another.
It is a matter of fact that some services remain fragmented and poor communities continue to suffer. The separate spheres of government should help work best to consolidate service delivery to our people rather than working against one another. There are some executive functions which are best suited at the national sphere while others are better handled at the provincial administration whereas the local municipalities are good at their own functions such as provision of water to our communities. Government has introduced a comprehensive legislative and institutional framework to give into effect the letter and spirit of the constitutional provision for co-operative governance. Some of the reforms include the Intergovernmental Relations Framework Act which seeks to promote and facilitate intergovernmental relations and provide procedures and mechanisms for settling disputes within these spheres of government.
Various structures that bring together different spheres of government and promote co-operative governance have also been established. These include the President’s Co-ordinating Council, PCC, at national level, the premier’s intergovernmental forum at provincial level and the district intergovernmental forum at district level. There are also forums that co-ordinate the work of government at sectoral level. Departments with concurrent functions have ministerial committees called the Minister and Members of Executive Council, Minmec, where relevant Ministers meet with relevant MECs to co-ordinate implementation of government services in the sector.
In 2009 we also established the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation to monitor the performance of government across the three spheres and to ensure that government departments work together to deliver services to the people. Another reform we introduced is the signing of performance agreement between the President and the Ministers which is then translated into delivery agreement between Ministers and their counterparts in provinces and municipalities. The delivery agreements outline what each sphere of government has to contribute in order to ensure that services are delivered to the people. Finally, we introduced the Back-to-Basics approach to local government. This is an important intervention since most service delivery happens in municipalities. One of the aims of the Back-to-Basics programme is to strengthen mechanisms for public participation. I thank you.
IsiZulu:
Mnu M L D NTOMBELA: Angibonge kuwena Somlomo, Nxamalala singabuye senze kanjani njengohulumeni ukuqiniseka ukuthi izikhungo zokusiza Thusong Centers ziyizixhumanisi zolwazi ekusizeni nasekulekeleleni imiphakathi yethu ukuze kuqiniseke ukuthi yonke iminyango kahulumeni iletha izinsiza ngokushesha emiphakathini yethu. Ngiyabonga.
UMOMGAMELI WERIPHABHULIKI YASENINGIZIMU AFRIKA: Ngiyabonga Somlomo, ngibonge elungwini elihloniphekileyo phela lezi zikhungo njengoba sizenza nje ezindaweni ezahlukahlukene zibheke khona ekutheni zisize imiphakathi, nemiphakathi nayo yazi ukuthi uma ifuna usizo ayihambi izindawo ezinde kodwa iyashesha ukufika lapho kufuneka khona bathole usizo nezinsizabantu.
Kuyenzeka ke lokho, kuyathuthuka ezindaweni eziningi. Siyacabanga ukuthi kwezinye izindawo sekuyenzeka, kwezinye izindawo kusesemathubeni ukuthi kwenzeke. Kwezinye izindawo sisaphokophelele ukuthi nakhona futhi kufinyelele. Yiyona njongo esinayo le ukuthi imiphakathi isizakale njengoba phela sisho sithi izinsiza nokusiza abantu kufuneka ukuthi kusondele ebantwini kunokuba abantu bahambe izindawo ezinde ukuyothola usizo. Phela akwenzeki konke lokho ngelanga elilodwa noma ngobusuku obubodwa, njengoba sisebenza nje yilokhu siqhubeka silima indima sibuye siqale enye sibuye silime enye. Siyoze sifike nalapho esingaka fiki khona kodwa lezo zikhungo zenzelwe khona ukuthi zisize abantu okuyibona esisebenzela bona. Ngiyabonga Somlomo.
Mr K J MILEHAM: Mr President, you spoke a moment ago about the separation of three spheres of government. Section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution provides that a municipality maybe placed under provincial administration when it cannot or does not fulfil an executive obligation in terms of the constitutional legislation. There were a number of municipalities that were still under administration at the end of the last term of council, in other words, on 3 August 2016. Does the President agree that the new council should be given the opportunity to govern their municipalities without provincial intervention? And if so, what do you intend to do to end the section 139 interventions which have run past election date? If not, why not?
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: Well, if not, why not - it is because we are not necessarily led by the results of the elections now - as if suddenly we are running a new country. It is the same; it is a continuation. [Interjections.] That is the reason. Those who will come in will have to follow what has happened because if you say that there were those that were not performing; we have to make them perform. That’s the reason why we will continue. Thank you. [Interjections.]
Mr M L W FILTANE: Hon Speaker, through you to the President, I put it to you that there is very effective co-ordination between the three spheres of government as well as the participation of the public in the service delivery by government. Generally speaking, there is hardly any involvement of the public at national and provincial level. At local government level, there is limited public participation called the Integrated Development Planning, IDP, process to an extent that effectively, people are only involved in the implementation of government programmes. The public is not involved in the conceptualisation, policy formulation, planning, budgeting and monitoring of government programmes. Government do that exclusively.
The question is: “How can the public’s involvement be enhanced so that they can benefit through skills if they were to participate in the processes I have mentioned as well as financially - given that the current legislation puts no sentence or penalties when the legislature fails to accentuate public participation so that the executive can deliver in conjunction with the public. That’s my question. Thank you.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: Hon Speaker, I don’t know how I can put it to the hon members that it is happening; there is co-ordination and working together. Government departments go out to meet the people and engage with them. The legislatures go to the people. The National Council of Provinces takes Parliament to the people. They discuss matters on how government must be run in this country, including legislature.
There is a period where the base is opened for comments by the public, so I don’t think it is absolutely correct to say that they don’t participate anywhere. There are imbizos that are called wherein every other person comes in. Of course, your point - as you indicate to me is that it is very little. That is you are saying; that’s your opinion. I think there is interconnection; perhaps you need to make a proposal if you think we need to do more of that. Your point should be taken; we always take advice - constructive advice. But I am saying that we are interacting at all levels. As government, on our own, we need to discuss our programmes. As I said, there is the PCC where the President meets with all the premiers and the South African Local Government Association, Salga, to discuss programmes of government who later go and meet with the people. Of course we take your point - your view that it is not enough. Perhaps we could look into how we can increase such interactions. What I was just worried about is when you say that there is very little that is happening. We go to a number of places throughout the country; that is why I was explaining it again to you. Thank you very much.
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Madam Speaker, through you to Msholozi - just to go back to the issue of section 139, the recent elections delivered quite a number of hung councils and already the threat or the acts of using section 139 is looming, Mtubatuba and AbaQulusi local municipalities and the failure to constitute Jozini Local Municipality, uMkhanyakude District Municipality and the overhauling of Nquthu Local Municipality and therefore the delay in the establishment of uMzinyathi District Municipality.
Mr President, we have put in place as you have also outlined quite a comprehensive list of things that must be done as checks and balances to ensure that the interdependence of government are functional. How do we avoid the unintended consequences of political abuse and political expedient, particularly by MECs and in this case - the MEC of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, in KwaZulu-Natal who has a direct invested interest in Jozini Local Municipality which is aiding and abetting the chaos with the hope to actually use section 139?
How do we protect and enhance these checks and balances such that they are not open to any aspect of abuse and work in favour of service delivery and good governance? Because what is happening now means that the hung councils are in the first line of fire for their interventions of section 139 and that should obviously be of concern because it would be an abuse of democratic principles. Thank you.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: Hon Madam Speaker, we have dealt with the general principle on this matter. Once the hon member gets to the specifics of a particular area and particular MECs; these are the issues one cannot be able to comment on because I don’t know the details. I might not venture to discuss the matter because I don’t know what is it that is making the process to be slow or whatever. You have your own interpretation of what are the intentions of the MEC; I don’t know because I am not in that position. I was dealing with the general principles that we needed to follow, but they will be special cases as some cases may not be necessarily the same. For example, the issue you are raising is because there has been hung kind of municipalities. These are new kind of things that come into effect. How do we deal with that? I don’t think I will be able to deal with that kind of aspect as a special case; otherwise I am going to give a wrong answer. Thank you.
Question 17:
17. The Leader of the Opposition (DA) to ask the President of the Republic:
In light of the fact that a sovereign ratings downgrade is likely to occur in the coming months, what plan of action does the Government have in place to avoid such an occurrence to ensure that the poor are not adversely affected, that jobs are created and that investors still see South Africa as a safe, desirable investment destination? NO2028E
UMONGAMELI WASENINGIZIMU AFRIKA: Bengithi usho ukuthi angiwuyeke lombuzo ngingabe ngisawuphendula.
ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILE: Awu ... yona [Akuzwali.]
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: Madam Speaker, South Africa, like many other countries in the world, has witnessed a decline in economic growth in the last few years as the global economy lost momentum ... [Interjections.]
Increasing interest rates in developing economies, constrained fiscal positions, lower commodity prices and increased political tensions in parts of the world have suppressed both business and consumer sentiments. At the G20 meeting I attended in Hangzhou, China, leaders discussed how we can act collectively and in a co-ordinated manner to support and ensure that growth is sustainable, balanced and inclusive. The summit reiterated its commitment towards using all policy tools to ignite growth. In particular, the Chinese presidency of the G20 prioritised the implementation of structural reforms as well as their individual comprehensive growth strategies which outline policy commitments to increase their domestic growth performance and in turn contribute to the global growth.
There is general consensus that countries have to prioritise structural reform as an effort to support domestic economies and contribute to better performance of the global economy. Our efforts to support the South African economy are anchored by the National Development Plan, NDP, and supported by the nine-point plan. As government we have made advances on our structural reforms in many areas namely, improving electricity availability, improving labour relations, improving the ease of doing business such as the Invest SA initiative and the establishment of one-stop shops - which is taking place - fiscal reforms, supporting small, medium and micro enterprises, SMMEs, reforms in state-owned companies, SOCs, information technology, transport competition and water provision as well as opening up sectors for private sector participation. Government’s efforts are further supported by improved collaboration with the private sector and labour. For instance, business has been working on various initiatives to support the economy. This includes recommendations for sector interventions in tourism, agriculture, health, manufacturing and setting up of a small business fund. And already R1,5 billion has been raised. The Black Business Council, BBC, has requested the participation of black asset fund managers in initiatives to support youth employment.
Finally, in our recently held Cabinet lekgotla, we resolved to take all actions necessary to reinforce policy certainty and improve business confidence. We will do this while simultaneously communicating a clear message that growth-friendly fiscal consolidation will continue. The Cabinet lekgotla also reiterated that it remains committed to the February 2016 fiscal targets which are aimed at stabilising debt and containing the rate of increase in debt service costs. The Cabinet lekgotla resolved to take the steps necessary to change the composition of expenditure towards investment so that government can make a contribution towards growing the economy and creating more work opportunities.
We therefore have every reason to believe that our collective actions as South Africans can deliver a better economic performance in the next few months and years. Data, last week, showed that South Africa’s economy grew at 3,3% in the second quarter of 2016. And this is a good sign that our collective efforts are beginning to yield results. We are sending a good signal to investors and rating agencies. I thank you. [Applause.]
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Mr President, I think this is one of the most crucial issues that we can discuss and in fact that we cannot begin to laugh about it. My primary issue is the fact that ... [Interjections.] Speaker, can you protect me?
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members. You are protected, hon Maimane.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: We can’t ... because 8,9 million South Africans are without work. What remains my challenge is that none of us wants a downgrade. But you have Ministers issuing statements on the investigation of banks. You have a Cabinet at war with itself. There is a clear perceived conflict between the presidency and Treasury. My understanding and my question is ... [Interjections.] that both of those things ... [Interjections.] ... are not helping to deal with the perception that South Africa is a safe place to invest in. We can have a one-point plan, a nine-point plan, so long as we do not stabilise the perception about South Africa, we are not going to achieve this.
So, my question to you is whether you agree with Deputy President Cyril Ramaphosa, who stood up in public and said, “We are a government at war with itself.” I want to know from you whether you agree with the Deputy President; and what actions you are in fact going to take to stop this war. Or does it benefit you politically? Because it is certainly not helping the people at home. I would be interested to find out what you would like to say. [Applause.]
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: Madam Speaker, there is no war between the presidency and the Treasury. There is no war. [Interjections.]
IsiZulu:
Haah! Kahle ukukhuluma ngisakhuluma.
English:
I am saying there is no war between the presidency and the Treasury. This is what we have said. I am clarifying that point. It must be as clear as anything. There is no war between the presidency and the Treasury. Earlier I said I do not know of any war within government.
AN HON MEMBER: Why did your Deputy President ... [Inaudible.]
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: No, I am saying ... [Interjections.] You ask Ramaphosa. I am saying there is no war within government and that is a clear answer. [Interjections.] Whatever perceptions people might have ... And perceptions are perceptions. If there are people who make statements about whatever and those statements are wrong, we deal with the matter. There is one matter I am attending to and that is a matter that concerns Minister Zwane. I am engaging Mr Zwane on what he said. [Applause.]
Now, I do not think we should balloon that as if there is war within government, there is none. You can specify people who make statements and deal with those issues. [Interjections.] No, I am engaging with the Minister on that matter or the statement that I have heard of. I was not here and I am engaging with him. I have started discussing the matter with him.
I am then saying therefore, as government we are addressing matters like the statement that I heard which was even debated here. I am engaging with the Minister on that one. I do not know other statements that have been made. [Interjections.] I have answered you on that one. You ask Ramaphosa. [Interjections.] Thank you, Madam Speaker. [Interjections.]
IsiZulu:
Nk M N S MANANA: Somlomo, baba Mongameli, ingaba usuqalile yini ukubonakala umphumela wokusebenzisana phakathi kaHulumeni nosomabhizinisi kanye nezinhlangano zezisebenzi? Lokhu ngikususela emihlanganweni kaHulumeni abe nayo kanye nosomabhizinisi nezinhlangano zabasebenzi emuva kokuba umnotho wethu lapha eNingizimu Afrika [South Africa] wehlisiwe esigabeni esiphansi yizinhlangano zamazwe omhlaba eziklelisa amazwe ngokwezomnotho ngokukhula komnotho wawo.
UMONGAMELI WASENINGIZIMU AFRIKA: Somlomo, ngibonge nakwilungu elihloniphekile. Imiphumela yokukhuluma okukhona phakathi kosomabhizinisi nabasebenzi kanye noHulumeni ngesinye isikhathi ukuxuba nomphakathi kuyabonakala kwenzeka yo. Ngiyacabanga ukuthi sike sabona kulezinsuku ezidlule ngoba sike sahlangana nabo bonke laba, sibabonile bephuma eNingizimu Afrika ehamba bonke kanyekanye behamba noNgqongqoshe Wezezimali bekhuluma nezwe ukulitshela ukuthi yini esiyenzayo sihlangene thina siyilezi zingxenye ezahlukahlukene. Lokho kwenze ngisho izwe uqobo labona ukuthi siyasebenzisana phakathi kwesimo ebesinezinselelo ngempela ezesabekayo. Kukhona okubonakalayo okwenzekayo nanjengoba nje uzwile ngikhuluma lapha ngithi abaqapheli bezokukhula kwezomnotho bakhulume into ethuse abantu abaningi ngoba bekukade kuthiwa umnotho awukhuli la baqhamuka sebethi ukhule ngamaphesenti amathathu nje kuseduze nje. Lokho kusho ukuthi umnotho kukhona okwenzayo lokho kuyimiphumela eminye yokuhlangana nokuxoxisana phakathi kwezamabhizinisi kanye nabasebenzi kanye noHulumeni. Iyabonakala imiphumela, kuyasithokozisa lokho ngoba sibona ukuthi hayi nokho umcebo uyeza noma kunzima ngoba phela izwe lonke jikelele likhungethwe yinhlupheko yokuthi ezomnotho azikhuli.
Njengoba izwe selaxhumana ke, alikho ilizwa elima lodwa eceleni. Izwe nezwe lixhumekeke kwelinye ukuthi liyakhula kanjani. Njengoba ngisho nje ngithi besihlangene e-China, ibikhulunywa lendaba ngoba yindaba esegudwini. Ngiyabonga Somlomo. [Ihlombe.]
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Madam Speaker, Mr President, despite the value of the rand being low, inflation lower than anticipated should keep interest rates down as well. Low currency and low inflation gives us a wonderful opportunity in the global export markets. With the above in our favour and combined with our rich natural resources we should under normal circumstances be able to prevent the further ratings downgrade. But, Mr President, don’t you agree with me that coalitions formed at local government level on the basis that citizens want to form a united front against corruption as well as the decision by leading bond investors no longer to lend state-owned enterprises due to negative public debt levels are signs that business and the citizenry have lost trust in the current government’s ability and that this could then be the reason for ratings downgrade. Would you agree with this assessment, Mr President?
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: Madam Speaker, no, I do not agree. There are many things that the hon member says which are not necessarily true. He says people have lost confidence in the ruling party it is absolutely not true. In this past local government elections the ruling party is leading in the country. [Interjections.] [Applause.] Absolutely, you may not be aware. It is leading. The opposition put together, have got a very small percentage overall.
What has happened, in the three metros there is no party that has won. Of all the parties that were contesting there is not a single party that has won. Whoever had to form government had to depend on the coalitions. [Interjections.] So it does not therefore back the assumption that people have said we have no confidence in this party. Is not true, absolutely. That is why I do not agree with you. Therefore the fact that our economy is picking up ... I do not know why the rating agencies should move against the facts, as it were. Because I think they look at how the economy is performing and the situation in the country. If you take the very coalitions that you are talking about, it indicates the maturing of democracy.
We have reached a stage where parties can talk and have coalitions. What else do you need? [Interjections.] If the parties were not doing so and there was no understanding among parties then the rating agencies should have been worried. This time they know there are local government that are going to be formed because others have won the majority of those metros that were ones won by the ANC and that it is just in few instances where there are coalitions. What is it? Democracy is working, absolutely. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. [Applause.]
Question 18:
18. Mr X Mabasa (ANC) to ask the President of the Republic:
With reference to the 6th Summit of the Tokyo International Conference on African Development that took place in Kenya over the weekend of 27 to 28 August 2016, what (a) is the nature of increased Japanese investment in South Africa and (b) undertakings would these sectors and the Government need to make for increased investment to be realised? NO2029E
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: Hon Speaker, this year’s Tokyo International Conference on African Development, also known as the Ticad Six Conference, focused on advancing Africa’s development agenda. It brought together heads of state as well as leading industrialists, top business executives and heads of business associations from Africa and Japan to promote a high level policy dialogue between these leaders and to mobilise support for African-owned development initiatives such as the African Union’s Agenda 2063
Japan has been a major Asian project sponsor in Africa over the past 10 years. The amount of Japanese projects finance commitments over the 10 years since 2005, has totalled $33,5 billion. At the Tokyo International Conference on African Development, Tcad, summit in Kenya, the Japanese Prime Minister pledged $30 billion in public and private sector investment for infrastructure development, education and health care for the African continent. This will be done in co-operation with the African Development Bank over a period of three years.
We held talks with the Japanese Prime Minister Mr Shinzō Abe prior to the summit to further strengthen relations between South Africa and Japan. South Africa is Japan’s largest trade partner on the African continent. About 140 00 people are employed by Japanese firms operating in South Africa. The Minister of Trade and Industry also held meetings with Japanese investors who expressed interest in investing in our infrastructure particularly in energy, oil, gas, advanced infrastructure technology, agro and aquaculture sectors. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Xitsonga:
Nkul X MABASA: Mutshamaxitulu, eka muchaviseki Presidente, ndza khensa. Presidente, ndzi pfumelelana na n’wina. Switirhisiwankulu i phuphu ya ikhonomi na nhluvukiso wa vaaki eka tiko rin’wana na rin’wana. Matiko hinkwawo ya misava lama hluvukeke ma na switirhisiwankulu leswi tiyeke. Xikongonomelo xa nhlengeletano ya switirhisiwankulu aku ri ku hoxa xandla eka nhluvukiso wa matiko ya Afrika ku nga ri Afrika-Dzonga ntsena. Muchaviseki Presidente, ndza tshemba leswaku mi ta pfumelelana na mina leswaku xin’wana xa nkoka i nhlayiseko wa switirhisiwankulu. Ndza khensa.
English:
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: House Chairperson, yes, indeed the maintenance of infrastructure is absolutely important. Firstly, you need to build it and after building it you have to maintain it. Infrastructure is indeed, and I agree with you, a key factor in economic development.
Part of our problem today in South Africa is that over the years, decades and decades, the infrastructure was faulty. It was not meant to accommodate all the population and that is why we have a problem. We have a problem to expand the old one which was not covering the whole country, maintain it and refurbish it. So, it is correct precisely because we are looking at expanding and growing the economy and that is why we came with a massive programme to build the infrastructure which includes the nine-point plan.[Interjections.] Absolutely! I agree with you. It is important and that is why we are focussing on it for economic growth. Thank you very much, House Chairperson.
Mr S MOKGALAPA: House Chairperson, to Mr President, the Tokyo International Conference on African Development, like the forum on Africa-China Co-operation, has given Africa a raw deal in terms of the big entities that were made in terms of infrastructure development. You would agree that Africa is still lagging behind in as far as infrastructure is concerned. China has pledged $60 billion to Africa and Japan has pledged $30 billion as you have just alluded to the fact that over $33 billion was spent. But there seem to be no tangible successful infrastructure project in Africa to unlock intra-Africa trade and to make sure that infrastructure development across Africa is happening.
So, wouldn’t you say that it is part of your leadership failure as the chairperson of the continental body that deals with infrastructure co-ordination across which is called the Presidential Infrastructure Champion Initiative of the African Union? What steps are you taking to ensure that this committed funds that has been given by the Asians are used for tangible specific infrastructure progress in Africa to unlock investment and to ensure that there is intra-Africa trade? I thank you.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: Thank you very much, Chair. Well, the hon member reminds me of what somebody told me somewhere. He said, Mr President it is clear that even if somebody loses his or shoe lace will say Zuma is responsible. [Laughter.] We are dealing with huge infrastructure of the continent and we are making headways. The hon member says we are responsible for this failure. We have the infrastructure in the continent and the Japanese are investing. The Japanese are conducting infrastructure construction in a number of countries including Kenya where we were. Their companies are working there. They have voted more money, $30 billion, and part of it must specifically be invested in infrastructure to help what Africa is doing. That was part of the meeting.
In fact, the leaders and the industrialists who were there praised that summit in the first instance that it is held for the first time in Africa and secondly, there were concrete discussions taking place on specific projects. The businesses from Japan were there. Your views about what happened in Kenya can’t be correct - it can’t be correct. The fact is that they have given $30 billion in addition to what they are doing in Africa. We can’t say Africa got a raw deal. There were even new agreements taken between companies in Kenya. I would not agree with you. I think they are making a contribution to Africa; they are building infrastructure in some countries, and not in one country. I don’t think your assumption and your assertion are accurate, hon member. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: House Chair, to Mr President, South Africa is Japan’s largest trading partner in Africa as you mentioned that about 140 Japanese companies are active in this country. My question is, Japan as one of the leading manufactures of renewable energy products in the world, how many jobs were created in the energy sector, and specifically what concrete steps are being taken by the two governments to share technology in the renewable energy sector and create jobs then giving those governments clear stands now on proceeding with nuclear energy despite the Minister of Finance saying that we cannot afford the same? Thank you, House Chairperson.
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: Madam House Chairperson, yes, Japanese companies are involved in the renewable energy. That is one of the areas they are active in, and indeed they are also active in many other areas and we work with them very well.
With regard to nuclear, we have engaged with the Japanese and many other countries in that issue as we have been developing and planning a programme for it. So, we have been involved and I think we are at a certain stage and I don’t want to get into the argument about whether we go this way or that way. All I know is that we have been discussing the matter and the matter has been discussed by the Cabinet and by everybody else and there is a process that is ongoing. I think there is nothing wrong if the Treasury feels that there isn’t sufficient money for now. I think on the basis of that there is a clear understanding between the Treasury and the Energy on how that programme should be taken forward. Thank you, hon Chair.
Ms S V KALYAN: Chairperson, thank you Mr President. Japan is very magnanimous and generous to Africa and you have acknowledged that. Now, I would like to ask you, do you not think tat this aid is actually a tool of diplomacy because Japan wants a permanent seat on the United Nations? I ask you, sir, will South Africa abide by the African Union, AU, Ezulwini Consensus where it wants two permanent seats for Africa, or would you say that you would support our benefactor who is Japan for a seat in the UN Security Council?
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: Chairperson, fortunately, in a different meeting, and not in the summit, but at a bilateral meeting between ourselves and the Japanese Prime Minister, this matter was discussed and it was not for the first time. The Deputy President was in Japan at some point. The matter was raised and the Deputy President put across the African position – the Ezulwini Consensus. I couldn’t say anything different.
At once we discussed with the Prime Minister and the point was put very clear. Africa as a continent which has been disadvantaged for a long time has a common position, Ezulwin Consensus, and we don’t deviate from that one because it is the position of the continent.
The Japanese’s interaction with Africa is not at all a thing that is trying to woo Africa to accept their position. It has nothing to do with it. It is related to the economic relations between Japan and Africa. That is a separate discussion and that is why it could not be discussed in the summit, but you could discuss it at a bilateral level. The position of the continent is very clear. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
IsiNdebele:
USihlalo weNdlu (Kkz M G Boroto): Siyathokoza mhlonitjhwa Mongameli. Lokho kusifikisa emaphethelweni wemibuzo enqotjhiswe kumhlonitjhwa uMongameli. Siyathokoza mhlonitjhwa.
IsiZulu:
UMONGAMELI WERIPHABHULIKI YASENINGIZIMU AFRIKA: Kancane nje ungakasuki mhlonishwa ...
English:
I think it would be unfair for me not to raise my concern about your House. Each time when I come here I am abused by Members of Parliament. Instead of answering questions I sit here and be called a criminal and a thief. I think this House must do something about it because you are going to make it very difficult for me to fulfil my constitutional obligation.
If I don’t raise the matter I think I will be failing in my duty. In my views I don’t think I should always come here to face people who are not respecting the House. I have to sit here and wait for the kind of discussions. Your House must do something. If this House is not interested in me answering questions, you must say so and then don’t call me. I thought I should make that point as it is very important for me. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
IsiNdebele:
USihlalo weNdlu (Kkz M G Boroto): Isibawo sikaMongameli sizakuthathwa sifikiswe kuSomlomo weNdlu. Siyathokoza.
Source: Unrevised transcript, Hansard.
