Edited court transcript of the recordings by Richard Baird of Judge Nkola Motata from early morning January 6 2007

Video1: Ref 20070106-V19 06/01/2007 Start:01h28 (6m12sec)

Subject

Statement

Language

JUDGE NKOLA MOTATA (accused)

Me, I am the lawyer

Sotho

LUCKY MELK (witness 1)

(indistinct)

Sotho

MOTATA

(indistinct)

Sotho

MELK

Do not talk to them

Sotho

MOTATA

I do not want to talk to them.

Sotho

I am saying let them give me my keys.

Let them take me to the police station and do whatever they want to do.

They must not think that they have caught me with something.

MELK

No I understand you clearly that you are working at court

Sotho

MOTATA

Yes, but you know all of you.

Sotho

Let me tell you, most of us this is our world.

It is not the world of the boers.

Even if they can have big bodies, South Africa is ours.

MELK

But sir, the problem is you drove into his wall

Sotho

MOTATA

Even if I can drive into it I will pay it.

Sotho

It is not a problem that I can pay for the wall but he must not criticize me.

There is no boer who will criticize me, (indistinct) what he thinks

MELK

But Mr you of the law person

Sotho

MOTATA

Yes I am a man of the law.

Sotho

I am saying if I knocked his wall ... (intervenes)

MELK

Do you know of the law of ... (intervenes)

English

MOTATA

Yes I know the law.

English

Let me go to the law.

I do not care about him.

Yes he must not look at me as a black man.

Let me go before the law.

That how much I owe him for the wall which I broke down.

MELK

But then it is not good to insult him

English

MOTATA

Fuck him, fuck him, he must not insult me.

English

I say fuck him.

Any body who insults me, I say fuck you

RICHARD BAIRD (owner)

Who is insulting you?

English

MOTATA

IF you insult me ... (intervenes)

English

BAIRD

Who is insulting you?

English

MOTATA

Listen

English

BAIRD

But you have to answer.

English

You are making an accusation, you have to answer the question

MOTATA

Hey I say listen

English

BAIRD

You have to answer the question if you are making an accusation

English

MOTATA

Hey fuck you, please

English

BAIRD

You are being disrespectful to me

English

MOTATA

I do not care about you

English

BAIRD

I am the owner of the house.

English

I have come here to see what damage you have done and you ... (indistinct)

MOTATA

Yes if you have any damage to your house, do not insult me

English

BAIRD

Whose, Lucky (Melk) have I insulted this gentleman?

English

MELK

No, that is what I was trying to ... (intervenes)

English

MOTATA

I say do not insult me

English

BAIRD

I think it is a one way street here

English

MOTATA

I say if I have done you any wrong to you, you have a claim to me, I respect that.

English

I have got to pay, but I do not want anybody.

If I have a claim against him, to insults me.

I do not, I do not want ... (intervenes)

BAIRD

I do not think you have got the basis to say this

English

MOTATA

No, no I would not, I would not

English

BAIRD

But you do not have the basis to say that, it is an academic talk now.

English

Nobody is insulting you

MOTATA

I say if I have wronged you, you have a claim against me.

English

You do not have the right to insult me

English

BAIRD

I do not think anybody has insulted you

English

MOTATA

No, but what did you say, when I got out of my car?

English

Do not think I am a fool.

Do not think I am a fool

BAIRD

What did I say?

English

MOTATA

I do not say do not ask , I say you, you spoke to me

English

BAIRD

Well maybe, what did I say?

English

MOTATA

You say, this drunken person

English

BAIRD

It is my opinion that you are drunk, yes because you smell of alcohol, you have driven through my wall (intervenes)

English

MOTATA

Rubbish

English

BAIRD

You do not walk straight

English

MOTATA

Do not talk rubbish

English

BAIRD

I am not talking rubbish (intervenes)

English

MOTATA

I am telling you now, you are talking rubbish

English

BAIRD

One, two, three, four, and five

English

MOTATA

I do not care about your workers, I say, do not talk rubbish

English

BAIRD

Six, seven.

English

There are eight people here

MOTATA

I say do not talk rubbish

English

BAIRD

Sorry, I do not have any workers here.

English

These are SAS security (intervenes)

MOTATA

I say do not talk rubbish.

English

I want to talk to you and solve our problem

BAIRD

And this is my tenant , not my worker

English

MOTATA

Then you were not talking to me.

English

I say fuck you ...

BAIRD

(Indistinct) you know who I am speaking to.

English

He is a senior manager at one of the banks

MOTATA

I do not care about your senior management, it does not work for me

English

BAIRD

He is my tenant, he is not my worker.

English

He is a senior manager at one of the banks

MOTATA

So get to hell.

English

Get to hell

BAIRD

No, no, do not fall over, whoa, careful, do not fall over.

English

You cannot even stand straight

MOTATA

You know, you get what, senior manager at bank, he does not work for me

English

BAIRD

But the difference is that he is a senior manager.

English

He is not a worker

MOTATA

Get to hell

English

BAIRD

He is not a worker, do not insult him.

English

He is a guy who studied.

He is a guy who's gone far

MOTATA

But I am talking to you not to anybody else.

English

I am talking to you.

You get to hell

BAIRD

I am a hard worker... yes, you are right

English

MOTATA

No, no, I am happy for you.

English

You are doing well for yourself.

But that senior messenger, you are talking rubbish about him

BAIRD

Here is the senior manager right here

English

MOTATA

Who is he?

English

BAIRD

Right here.

English

He is right here (indistinct)

MOTATA

He is supposed to be any senior manager

English

"Crowd"

(laughter)

English

MOTATA

I am not drunk, I can't (intervenes)

English

BAIRD

Sounds like you are drunk saying things like that.

English

Unfortunately, the guy's are laughing at you

MOTATA

No, no, they are not laughing at me, they are laughing at the short guy (SAS).

English

So you tell me when you are ready, I must run

BAIRD

So you have a problem with the vertically challenged?

English

Video2: Ref 20070106-V20 06/01/2007 Start:01h48 (4m42sec)

[JMPD1: Jhb Metro policewomen (have arrived by this point)]

MELK

Sorry father

Sotho

MOTATA

I am going to tell you the truth.

Sotho

I was going out.

Now I am holding a meeting for this gentleman

JMPD1

And then you ... (intervenes)

Sotho

MOTATA

We did not understand each other.

Sotho

So we decided to call the people of the law

JMPD1

You did not understand each other, how?

Sotho

MOTATA

Who is paying who.

Sotho

JMPD1

So how do you want this matter to be treated?

Sotho

MOTATA

I want to pay him

Sotho

JMPD1

Then what does he say?

Sotho

MOTATA

He says I should get a quotation.

Sotho

I say it is the truth.

I hit his wall

JMPD1

Okay, right now how are you sir?

English

BAIRD

I am concerned about this event

English

JMPD1

Okay, so what are we going to do?

English

We are going to take ...

BAIRD

I do not know, you need to do what you need to do

English

MOTATA

They give their quotation.

English

I will pay what the wall costs

JMPD1

No, you know what we should do sir ... (intervenes)

Sotho

BAIRD

How did this happen?

English

JMPD1

We are going to open a case about the accident and then give him a case number, then we proceed.

Sotho

Is the wall insured?

BAIRD

No. I do not think so

English

JMPD1

Is it not insured?

English

BAIRD

No, because

I am not going to claim against my insurance and increase my premium for a situation like this

MOTATA

You know I want to say ... (intervenes)

English

BAIRD

I am not going to loose or incur any costs.

English

This has got nothing to do with insurance.

This is a case of damage to property and I need to look at a charge here

MOTATA

If the insurance company says I should pay, I am willing to pay

English

JMPD1

You know the procedure we are supposed to take the accident, and we will give you the case number, and if you do not agree both of you what to do, may be he agrees that if he can pay.

English

BAIRD

I want to know how this happened, how can I ...

English

MOTATA

I knocked your wall, that is the truth.

English

JMPD1

You want your wall to be fixed or you want to know ... (intervenes)

English

BAIRD

I have, this is I have tenants who live here.

English

They need to have security on here, so that they are secure.

There is a young lady here.

So this is now a breach of the security.

We need to secure the perimeter as of now with a guard, so there is no cost for that.

And there is a cost to fix the wall and I do not know when they are going to fix the wall.

Until the security is remedied we need to put a guard here.

MOTATA

You, you, you, you are extending your luck, is that I am Father Christmas

English

BAIRD

I am extending my luck?

English

JMPD1

Sir, please give me your drivers licence and proceed?

Sotho

BAIRD

I think they call it remedy

English

JMPD1

Can I please have your drivers licence?

Sotho

MOTATA

Wait a bit madam

Sotho

JMPD1

Sir I want to work, it has been long time standing here

Sotho

MOTATA

Wait madam

Sotho

JMPD1

I want to work now.

Sotho

I am asking for a licence so that we can be able to go

MOTATA

Wait madam

Sotho

JMPD1

Sir, please leave this man alone, talk to me, leave this man alone to talk his own problems

Sotho

We waited for a long time now

Sotho

BAIRD

Lucky [Melk], what are you hearing?

English

MELK

Yes, she wants the licence

English

BAIRD

Yes, but go and tell them the guy in the car is drunk.

English

He must be tested

MELK

You are talking (indistinct)

English

BAIRD

Does she know who it is?

English

This is a drunken driving, and you need to draw blood here.

Look here he cannot even stand.

I am the owner, I arrive here, he has been insulting me, racist slurs and all sorts of things.

I have not shown any disrespect and you need to follow a drunken driving.

I am laying a charge of drunken driving and I am laying a charge of damage to my property as well.

JMPD2?

No, it is not a problem.

English

I have got all what we need to do

BAIRD

But you need to act quickly, you need to take blood

English

JMPD2?

Yes we have to take him to Hillbrow, we do not take blood here

English

BAIRD

Okay, then you need to do it

English

MOTATA

I do not want to my Sister

English

BAIRD

They have to take blood and get him to a police station and follow it up from there.

English

Maybe even a breathalyser on him.

MOTATA

English

MELK

(Indistinct)

English

??

sissy

English

MOTATA

For I do not want anybody to come and talk rubbish

English

JMPD

Mind your words

English

MOTATA

I would say to you, fuck to you to.

English

I would say to you, fuck you too

BAIRD

You are speaking to a police officer

English

MOTATA

Yes, it is a police officer, I do not want to be insulted.

English

I do not want to be insulted.

If it is a police officer, I do not have to insult her

BAIRD

Gee whiz!

English

Video3: Ref 20070106-V21 06/01/2007 Start:02h09 (4m17sec)

MOTATA

You are police officers, if people take my keys, why should I cooperate with you?

English

JMPD1

Who took your keys?

English

MOTATA

These people here ... there is some big white fellow here.

English

That is the guy behind you.

He must tell you ... who took my keys.

I do not have to cooperate with you.

I do not care.

BAIRD

I haven't got your keys

English

MOTATA

No, no let me tell you guy's, I do not have to cooperate

English

BAIRD

Please be careful,

English

MOTATA

No, no, fuck you

English

BAIRD

do not swear at me

English

MOTATA

I say I do not have to cooperate.

English

I do not care what you say.

I say, I do not have to cooperate with you.

If anybody does not give me my keys ...

BAIRD

Keys were not here when I arrived

MOTATA

Hey fuck you.

English

I say anybody who does not cooperate with my keys, I do not have obligations to give you my addresses and everything.

English

JMPD1

Please sir, go down a little bit

Sotho

MOTATA

No

Sotho

JMPD1

You  no, please go down a little bit

Sotho

BAIRD

You see you are also making racial statements about me, I have two black tenants and I have black neighbours.

English

All of these people will tell you.

MOTATA

No, let me tell you, let me tell you, do not be a nice to these people.

English

You are not a nice person when you came to me the first time

BAIRD

I have, I have ... (intervenes)

English

MOTATA

Yes, you are not a nice person

English

Do not look at me with the other people.

I do not care about them

BAIRD

I have how many witnesses?

English

MOTATA

Yes, you can go ahead with that, I do not care

English

BAIRD

I think you are slandering me now

English

JMPD1

Okay

English

MOTATA

Yes, I can slander you

English

BAIRD

Okay

English

MOTATA

I do not care about that

English

BAIRD

Okay

English

MOTATA

Because I know this what you said to me

English

BAIRD

I am sorry, factually it is not the case

English

MOTATA

Yes, we may miss it, but I do not.

English

I have an elephant's mind.

BAIRD

Well, I am not sure what that means, but it is obviously not a good thing ... (intervenes)

English

MOTATA

No, no, I do not buddy anybody who is truthful to me.

English

I will fend for that person.

I do not care a damn

BAIRD

I am sure this will help you at all, but I happen to ... (intervenes)

English

MOTATA

I do not care

English

BAIRD

I happen to have done an empowerment deal for MKMVA [MKhonto We Sizwe Military Veterans Associations]

English

MOTATA

Hey, hey, do not worry about whites, it is the truth that must prevail

English

JMPD1

Can you listen sir?

Sotho

MOTATA

Yes, I do not care about that

English

BAIRD

It is obvious he had a drink or two

English

JMPD1

Listen, do you know where you coming from and were heading to?

Sotho

MOTATA

Here am I going to?

Sotho

These boers took my keys

JMPD1

Wait a moment, we will make sure that they give you the keys.

Sotho

They will not go away with your keys.

They will never go away with them, look you here, they will never go away with them

MOTATA

Even if they can do it, I do not care

English

BAIRD

And he is losing his dignity

English

MOTATA

Why are you begging the boers?

Sotho

JMPD1

No

English

BAIRD

I think you are mistaken, you are in the wrong town and you are in the wrong place

English

JMPD1

Let us humble ourselves

Sotho

BAIRD

You are making things up

English

MOTATA

Let us talk on an equal basis, this is what I want

English

JMPD1

No

English

BAIRD

I do not think so

English

JMPD1

Situation does not allow us to make noise at this time

English

BAIRD

I was sleeping and this is what you do

English

MOTATA

Listen, I say listen

Sotho

JMPD1

Let us try to calm down for us to understand each other

Sotho

MOTATA

Let us calm down.

Sotho

What I am saying, if I can know that I have my car keys

JMPD1

You are going to get your keys sir.

Sotho

We will definitely make sure that you are getting your car keys

MOTATA

We are at fault, I am saying listen, we are at fault.

Sotho

If we are wrong, let us judge ourselves.

If I am wrong, I want to pay a person that I have wronged.

I do not want to pray to a person

MELK

Sir, please

Sotho

JMPD1

No, you will get your keys

Sotho

MELK

Let me explain.

Sotho

The keys are on top of your car.

They have been taken by (indistinct)

JMPD1

We know you will not run away

Sotho

BAIRD

He has chosen the wrong guy to insult

English

JMPD1

??

BAIRD

They must take photos.

English

They must take blood.

They must do what any citizen must go through

MELK?/ JMPD

The keys are safe

English

Video4: Ref 20070106-V22 06/01/2007 Start:02h21 (5m11sec)

JMPD1

No matter how it could be.

Sotho

You know we need to follow the law

MELK

You also want to go home, is it not so?

Sotho

JMPD1

Yes

Sotho

MOTATA

You know me.

Sotho

I just do not want even these people.

Like can you have a look at this boer?

JMPD1

This one is just towing the car

Sotho

MELK

This one is just towing the cars

Sotho

JMPD1

Sir, can you go to your car please

MELK

Please go to your car please

MOTATA

what I was saying is; if I am wrong, I am wrong.

Sotho

I broke somebody's wall

JMPD1

Yes

Sotho

MOTATA

That I admit

Sotho

JMPD1

Yes

Sotho

MOTATA

I will fix it.

Sotho

Take my address.

But do not take my address like I am drunk.

I do not want that

JMPD1

Sir, I believe that where you are working as you are of the law.

Sotho

People of the law are present.

MOTATA

Let me follow the procedures.

Sotho

But they must stop saying I am drunk

JMPD1

They do not know whether you are drunk or not

Sotho

MOTATA

When they are taking my particulars, I do not want them to say I am drunk

Sotho

JMPD1

No, they are not saying you drunk sir

Sotho

MOTATA

The thing is they want to put me in through an alcohol test.

Sotho

MOTATA

I say this guy, there is no way that I can come in and knock his wall.

English

I am wrong, I knocked his wall, I am wrong, I have to pay.

Not that I am either drunk or sober.

I have to pay this is his wall, I have got to pay.

Are you listening?

Sir do you understand me?

I have knocked your wall.

Whether I am drunk or not ... (intervenes)

BAIRD

But you have also breached the security that we provide to our tenants.

English

So I have to put the security here for the ... (indistinct)

MOTATA

No listen, I say security or whatever.

English

I have knocked your wall, I have got to pay

BAIRD

Yes

English

MOTATA

Yes, I have got to pay.

English

Whether I am drunk or not, I have got to pay.

English

It is not a question of I am drunk or sober.

English

I have got to pay. I say ... (intervenes)

English

BAIRD

That is not for me to decide, I am ... (intervenes)

English

MOTATA

No, I am telling you

English

BAIRD

I am .... civil

English

MOTATA

No, no I accept that

English

JMPD1

Mr Motata, what the law says is, as you are the person of the law, this is an accident

Sotho

MOTATA

Yes, it is an accident,

Sotho

MOTATA

I say, I have got to pay for whatever I have done, which is wrong.

English

I do not want to fight with this man.

I do not. I do not, honestly

BAIRD

Well it is a change in your attitude from earlier on

English

MOTATA

No, no I am not changing.

English

I say, if I get into your wall, in your wall, whether I am drunk or sober.

One thing that remains is that I have got to pay

BAIRD

Ja

English

MOTATA

Now I say to you, I give you my particulars.

English

I have to pay.

Honestly, I want to give you my particulars and I want to pay for the damage I have done to you

BAIRD

Okay

English

MOTATA

Am I wrong?

English

BAIRD

No, no that is the beginning of it

English

MOTATA

No I am not wrong, I want to pay you.

English

It is not a question of being drunk or sober.

I have caused damage to somebody

English

BAIRD

But I do not think we are talking at the moment about being drunk or sober.

English

I mean you are raising an issue.

We are not talking about that

MOTATA

No, no, what I am raising is that I have done damage to you

English

BAIRD

Ja

English

MOTATA

That is the main thing

English

BAIRD

Yes, well in the normal process, if you have done damage to me, you will have to pay.

English

You need to remedy that.

MOTATA

Then I say take my particulars and tell me how much I have done to you

English

BAIRD

Yes, I do not know how much you have done

English

MOTATA

No, no, then you take my particulars.

English

We call each other.

You tell me how much I have done.

I have got to pay.

??

How do you feel about that?

BAIRD

Well, I think there is a process that needs to be followed

English

MOTATA

No, no but I am just saying

English

BAIRD

You know ...

English

MOTATA

I have done you wrong

English

BAIRD

My attorney will deal with it.

English

I am not getting involved with it.

He can deal with it and he can go through it all, how much is due

MOTATA

Let me be honest with you ... (intervenes)

English

BAIRD

My attorney has been here, he came earlier on and he left.

English

He went back to bed.

He lives just up the road

MOTATA

Who is he?

English

BAIRD

No, he can, he can contact you

English

MOTATA

No, no I do not want that

English

BAIRD

He can contact you

English

MOTATA

Let us not write yet.

English

I am saying I give you my particulars

BAIRD

Look, I mean that is obvious.

English

You know, you have given me details which (intervenes)

MOTATA

Yes, if that is your attorney, he communicates with me.

English

I fix your damage.

Is that too long process, or do I ...

BAIRD

You know what, I left it with him.

English

He must sort it out.

I don't need to get involved ... (intervenes)

MOTATA

Ma'am, do you have a pen?

English

Do you have a pen?

Video5: Ref 20070106-V23 06/01/2007 Start:02h27 (1m34sec)

JMPD1

No justice is ... (indistinct)

Sotho

MOTATA

What is justice ...

Sotho

BAIRD

Now they have hand cuffed the judge and he refuses to get out of his car.

English

He is refusing to co-operate

English

JMPD1

Mr Motata!

English

MOTATA

Yes, you will regret it

English

JMPD1

English

MOTATA

You will regret it

English

BAIRD

He is threatening the police

English

MOTATA

Ja, you will regret it.

English

I do not care

JMPD1

No, no, no.

Sotho

That is not the way to do things

MELK?

You do not do things that way

Sotho

MOTATA

Yes, I do not care

Sotho

MOTATA

Do it, do it

Sotho

JMPD1

You are an old person, but you do not want to think

Sotho

BAIRD

Need to lock his car after

English

JMPD1

Breathalyser

English

No

Sotho

JMPD1

What we want from you

Sotho

JMPD1

You making us illiterates

Sotho

JMPD1

What kind of an old man are you, who does not want to think?

Sotho

MOTATA

Yes, you do not want to do it

Sotho

JMPD1

You are behaving like an illiterate

Sotho

JMPD1

Let us go

Sotho

MOTATA

How am I going to get up?

Sotho

JMPD3

We are going to lift you up

Sotho

BAIRD

Did they do the breathalyser?

MOTATA

I want you do it

Sotho

JMPD3

Where is the car?

Sotho

JMPD1?

Our car?

Sotho

MOTATA

You want to do it?

Sotho

No. no, I do not care

??

(indistinct)

Sotho

JMPD1

Is there a (indistinct)

Sotho

JMPD1

Yes, take him out (indistinct)

Sotho

MOTATA

I do not care.

Sotho

I am refusing

JMPD1

You are going to pay

Sotho

BAIRD

Did he take a breathalyser?

English

JMPD3

He does not want

English

BAIRD

He does not want?

He is delaying, so blood alcohol comes down in his blood

JMPD3

It does not help him to be uncooperative with her now

English

JMPD2

It does not help (indistinct)

English

BAIRD

Judge is now in the police car

English

JMPD1

This man is giving problems, we going with you!

Sotho

BAIRD

In my opinion, it is fairly handled

English

JMPD1

Now the thing is that ...

Sotho