Transcript of reply by President Jacob Zuma in National Assembly, March 20 2013

6. Adv A de W Alberts (VF Plus) to ask the President of the Republic:†

In light of his visit to white squatter camps in Pretoria in 2009 and his promise to help them, why are measures such as (a) affirmative action and (b) Black Economic Empowerment that impoverishes white people still necessary when statistics indicate that more black people own property than white people do and that an equal number of black and white people own shares on the Johannesburg Stock Exchange?

REPLY:

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, affirmative action and black economic empowerment are constitutional imperatives designed in terms of section 9 of the Constitution to correct the inequality and exclusion faced mainly by black people - namely Africans, coloureds and Indians - as well as women and people with disabilities, which were caused by apartheid laws.

I disagree that the statistics on property ownership patterns and distribution of shares on the Johannesburg Stock Exchange, JSE, indicate that the historical injustices that are a legacy of apartheid have been overcome. It is a fact that inequality in terms of race is still very much a part of South African society.

It is critical to draw a distinction between the ownership of assets or property by a few black people and such ownership by the majority that is still disadvantaged even after 19 years into democracy. It is an undisputable fact that white compatriots still control the South African economy and disproportionately own most of the prime land in the country.

With regard to the management of the economy, the 2012 employment equity report indicated that, in the senior management category, white males comprise 59,1%. Black people are the most underrepresented in this category at 21,8%. The economy is therefore still controlled by white males.

Let us take the example the hon member raises regarding shares on the JSE. In its report of 2012, the JSE indicated that, while 21% of shares of ownership of the top 100 companies is held by black people, direct black ownership is less than 5%.

When one considers that, according to the 2011 Census, Africans, Indians and coloureds make up 90,6% of the population, these figures indicate serious underrepresentation of black people. Africans make up 79,2%, coloureds 8,9% and Indians 2,5%.

In relation to property ownership, the South African Property Sector Charter Council 2010 report estimates that, of the total R4,9 trillion market capitalisation in the sector, R3 trillion falls within historically white residential areas, where the majority of these properties are still owned by white people.

With regards to the standard of living in general, Census 2011 revealed the shocking statistics that the income of the average white household still remains six times higher than that of the average African household. Figures indicate that the average annual African household income is R60 613 while that of the white household is R365 164. The census also revealed that close to 1,9 million African households reported no income at all.

Obviously, this state of affairs cannot be allowed to continue forever. I am therefore happy that you raised this matter, hon member, to remind the House of the urgent need to accelerate economic transformation.

The problem of poor whites is not new. The only difference is that government looks after all citizens equally, while there were special programmes and interventions in the past to alleviate white poverty and reserve jobs for unskilled white citizens. The poor whites in Pretoria West to whom you refer were linked with relevant government departments so that they could be assisted with the services they required.

What is important is the need to accept that apartheid left a legacy of inequality and exclusion based on race whose impact will take decades to completely undo. The denial that is often expressed will not take away this fact. We will continue working hard to reverse this legacy in order to build a truly nonracial, nonsexist, prosperous and equal society. I thank you. [Applause.]

Adv A de W ALBERTS: Hon speaker, Mr President, the fact that you mention that blacks are still disadvantaged, as well as the research that you have indicated, are actually dubious in the sense that no proper research has been done as to the effect your policies have on the white community as such. It is basically just stated that they are fine. The census shows that they are fine, but there are about one million of them living in shacks. One million represents 20% of white people.

We are not even talking about the coloured community who is supposed to be advantaged by this policy but who is actually still disadvantaged. That is also shown by the numbers.

At the end of the day, we need to get our research correct because the research numbers don't all add up. If you state that the ANC is worried about all South Africans, then I can state from my position that it is patently not true. Your policies are creating new victims and 20 to 50 years from now we will stand here and we will say that we have to rectify the mistakes of the past that the ANC has created. We will then again have to help white and coloured people as well as other minorities that have also been sidelined.

What I am proposing, Mr President, is that we work for an inclusive economy and that you use white as ... [Time expired.] [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Hon members, order!

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, what I have just said is researched. It has been researched thoroughly and scientifically. I don't think you could produce any other evidence, other than what I have just said about the economic status of the citizens of this country, particularly if you take into account the history of racial discrimination in this country.

The reality is that the majority of the black people still suffer as they did many years ago. There are pockets of the white minority whose situation is such that it qualifies them to be regarded as poor whites. I have been to where they stay. I did not look away. I immediately connected the departments who began to work to correct that situation.

Therefore, there is no way you can say that, in 20 years - which will unfortunately never happen - we will have to correct the mess of the ANC. We are correcting the mess. We are actually trying to change the quality of the lives of all South Africans. It includes the whites.

It does not remove the fact that we had racial policies that really impoverished black people. If you look at the informal settlements today you will find that the reason why there are so many and why they grow is because of the apartheid laws. Black people were not allowed to go to the cities and therefore the infrastructure that was built was built for a minority. It was not built to carry the citizens of this country who must come to the cities where there are possibilities and opportunities. [Applause.]

When those laws were abolished, people came to the cities. The space was not enough, because it was only meant for whites and not for those who work for them. That is the problem we are dealing with.

You can't say that is not scientific. It is a fact that, if you come to Cape Town from the airport, you travel a long distance and see people in shacks. That is a reality. When you enter Cape Town and go to Rondebosch, it is another world. It is not a creation of this government; it is a creation of an oppressive government. We are correcting that.

You can't boldly say that it is not true. You must be very bold to say so. We are dealing with a legacy that really impoverished and almost enslaved people. The fact that we have 1,9 million people who earn nothing is because of how the economy was structured from the beginning.

Those are the issues we are dealing with. I think we should accept that. I don't think we should just defend it for the sake of it. There is a reality in this country that the majority were deprived of education and they were told that they cannot have mathematics because can't you can't use it anywhere. That is what Dr Verwoerd said. Why should they get education? That is why we have a problem with education today.

We don't want to belabour these matters but, if questions come, we might actually sit down and give details of the mess that was done which today is normally taken as the failure of this government of the ANC. It is not. So, I am just saying, let us state the facts as they are. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr B M BHANGA: Speaker, I trust that we all agree that poverty doesn't know colour. Cope cannot agree with the notion that BEE has impoverished white people. The fact is that millions of black people - those who are not politically connected to the ANC's patronage network - have been marginalised and remain impoverished. [Interjections.] The better life in this country, Mr President, remains to benefit ANC leaders. [Interjections.]

Mr President, the R25 billion that was meant for services but which was stolen, had been stolen by the people of the ANC - the ANC leadership - who keep on impoverishing our people because they steal from the poor, from the public purse. Even the R260 million to build Nkandla amounts to stealing. This means that black economic empowerment benefits only those who are sitting in those benches. [Interjections.]

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, I don't know what the hon member is saying. He is making wide-ranging accusations. I am not sure if he can produce one of these people who have done anything wrong. [Interjections.]

I don't think it is true that black economic empowerment has only benefitted ANC people in the country. I don't think so. It has benefitted a particular percentage of black people in this country of whom the majority is not necessarily ANC. If there are people who may be ANC, who are black and who qualify to benefit from black economic empowerment, why should they be punished? Why should they not participate? Is membership of the ANC condemning you to not benefitting from the policies of the country? If that is understood as corruption, well, that is a different type of corruption that the hon member is talking about.

I think the statement is very wide. It makes all types of accusations which can't be substantiated by evidence. That is the problem. Everybody says the ANC is corrupt. What is it? Who has done what? Whoever from the ANC... if connected... we have acted on such people. We are saying, whoever is corrupt, we act. [Interjections.]

Ms J L FUBBS: Hon Speaker, hon President, thank you for contextualising your responses within the legacy of apartheid... [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Order!

Ms J L FUBBS: ...and the many challenges apartheid has brought before us.

Our Constitution - which we must surely all agree with - is informed by human rights which exhort us to address these imbalances that have been created, these deficits created by an oppressive policy against the majority. What we are seeking to do is not exclusionary - I am sure you would agree; it is inclusive.

So, nothing within the BBBEE says whites can't participate. We want our white compatriots contributing to our economy. What it is saying is that functionality and price will remain a priority here. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Order, hon members!

Ms J L FUBBS: However, let us broaden this group. [Interjections.]

And broadening this group does not call for the manipulation of statistics to create an unrealistic picture of reality.

Mr President, I want to ask you, would you agree that we do need our white compatriots but that it is absolutely important that everyone in our country recognises the priority of addressing the imbalances? [Applause.]

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, I totally agree. [Applause.]

Mrs C DUDLEY: Hon Speaker, the question I am asking is a serious question which I am not taking lightly. I know our history and I know the damage that was done. Is BEE and affirmative action solely for purposes of economic empowerment or is there an element of retribution? If so, does BEE and affirmative action satisfy that need? Should this important aspect and often unacknowledged need for retribution be researched and better understood in order to be better responded to?

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, affirmative action and BEE were made and designed to solve our problems and that is why they are being implemented. They have not succeeded in solving all the problems and that is why we have been talking about them. We thought that, at a given time, we should broaden them. We talked about broad-based black economic empowerment precisely because, as we moved forward, we realised some of the shortcomings. We needed to do more. It is meant for that and not for the opposite. It is meant to solve the problems created by our history. Thank you. [Applause.]

The House adjourned at 16:00.

Source: Unrevised transcript, Hansard

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