Transcript of reply by President Jacob Zuma in National Assembly, March 20 2013
2. The Leader of the Opposition [Lindiwe Mazibuko] (DA) to ask the President of the Republic:
Whether he was informed of the upgrades at his private home in Nkandla in November 2010; if so, (a) on what date and (b) by what means?
REPLY:
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, the Zuma family has effected various renovations to the family residence over a period. In the recent past, and more particularly, in the early part of 2008, the family commissioned certain improvements to the residencies for its own account. Nobody's permission was necessary in this regard in so far as it related to an upgrade of a private residence. This right extends to all citizens of the Republic. I was, accordingly, aware of these renovations to the extent that it relates to my family residence, which was self-funded. It remains a private family matter.
Naturally, I was informed that improvements needed to be made at the family residence to enhance the security of the head of state. The nature and form of improvements were decided upon by the relevant officials through their departments. As already indicated, such information would not include details on the specifics of what would be done by whom and at what cost. I thank you, hon Speaker.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon Speaker, it sounds to me like the President is tap-dancing around this issue. He says he knew about the renovations that were self-funded. He says he knew there was security taking place. Ultimately, however, it sounds to me like he is saying he did not know about the extent of the upgrades that were taking place at his private home. [Interjections.]
I have here a letter which shows he must have known. It is a letter addressed to him by the former Minister of Public Works, the hon Gwen Mahlangu-Nkabinde, setting out the details of the project, including that money was being spent on nonsecurity items. How is it that the hon President did not know about or act upon a letter addressed to him by one of his own Cabinet Ministers?
For the sake of clarity and for the record, did the hon President receive this letter from the Department of Public Works? In addition, when he received it, why did he not immediately intervene, to prevent this outrageous expenditure of R206 million on a project at his private home in Nkandla? I thank you. [Applause.]
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, firstly, I never received any letter. [Interjections.] [Laughter.] No letter has ever been received by me. [Interjections.] That is a very clear, straight answer. [Interjections.] No letter was ever received, let alone the fact that when Ministers write to me, they sign as Ministers. It is not everybody in the department who signs. It is a very funny letter ... [Interjections.] ... that has the signatures - as I saw it from a distance - of so many people. [Applause.] [Interjections.] Directors-general and Deputy Ministers do not write to me from the department, it is the Minister who does so. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order! Order!
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Now, I am telling you, that when Ministers write to me, they do not send letters that are signed by the Deputy Minister or the director-general, or whoever it may be. [Interjections.] I never received this one. That is your answer. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order!
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Secondly, regarding whatever elements relating to security that was decided on by departments, I take it that this matter has a report which Parliament is trying to discuss how to handle. I am sure that those details will appear there, wherein you look at these items and deal with them, whether they were security-related, or not. I do not think I should pre-empt your discussion by discussing the details of the report that is before Parliament. If there was no report before Parliament, it would be a different matter. [Interjections.] So, the matter must be discussed properly, by your structures, in this Parliament.
I am also informed that the Public Protector is also either conducting an investigation, or about to conduct it. If the matter is being undertaken in terms of investigations, I do not think we could have all directions being discussed during question times, being discussed in the report itself, because the reports have been investigated. They must address those specific issues. So, I do not think - besides saying I never received the letter - I should discuss the details. Thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members! That is clearly unacceptable. [Interjections.] Order, hon members! Order!
Mr D A KGANARE: Hon Speaker, Mr President, the last time you answered a similar question, you said, and let me remind you:
Hon Speaker, hon members, let me make one thing quite clear from the outset. I have noted all sorts of public comments to the effect that the government built my home in Nkandla. My residence in Nkandla has been paid for by the Zuma family.
[Interjections.] Are you saying, hon President, that the tuck shop, the soccer field, the lift, the clinic ...
An HON MEMBER: The gym!
Mr D A KGANARE: ... at the end of the day will not be part of the Zuma estate, and therefore has not been financed by the taxpayers' money? Are you saying, hon President, that all these things have got to do with security - including the lift and the tuck shop? [Interjections.]
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you, hon Speaker. I think it would be very prudent for the hon member to wait to discuss the report ... [Interjections.] ... which has the details ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order!
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: ... of the things you are talking about, and you will know who paid for what. [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: You know already!
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: I said I build my houses. Nobody built my house. In addition, I said then - and I do not know why you are not quoting it - that government determined that they needed to pay for security features. [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: Tuck shop!
An HON MEMBER: Soccer field!
An HON MEMBER: Gyms!
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: I said so. I built ... no, there is no government that has built my house! With regard to my houses, government recommended specific security features on my houses. [Interjections.] That is why they have built ... [Interjections.]
Since you have mentioned one element, that of a tuck shop, the tuck shop has been there all the time. All the time ... [Interjections.] ... at the centre of my homestead. My wife, MaKhumalo, has used, has lived on this tuck shop, even when I was away. It has been there all the time.
Hon MEMBERS: Yes! [Applause.]
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: There is no tuck shop that was built as part of the things that are being built now. What was explained to me by security was that this tuck shop was at the centre of the homestead, and people were coming deep into the homestead, to buy. The explanation was that that was a security risk because nobody knows who comes into the centre of the house carrying what. [Interjections.] On the security considerations, the department said it was therefore a security threat. It had to be removed from the centre of the homestead to the gate, so that it can deal with those security considerations. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Now, as a family, we had no intention to move the tuck shop, and we had no money to pay for that. Therefore, the people who thought that this was a security risk needed to exercise their security considerations, and that is what they did. [Interjections.] I am merely responding to this particular issue you are quoting, because it has been quoted all over. No government has built a tuck shop. Government removed an old tuck shop from the centre of the homestead to the gate for security reasons. Thank you, hon Speaker. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
IsiZulu:
Mnu V B NDLOVU: Mhlonishwa Somlomo, mhlonishwa Mongameli, okokuqala angithokoze nje ngale mpendulo osusinekeze yona. Cha kubili nje engicela ukukwazi. Ingabe umhlonishwa uMongameli uke wawubona yini lo mbiko okukhulunywa ngawo? Okwesibili, umhlonishwa uMongameli angavuma yini ukuthi uma lo mbiko usufikile kulabo okufanele ufike kubona ugcine usufikile nalapha eNdlini ngoba kungenjalo sizowuzwa ngenzwabethi kuhle kokuzalwa kukaJesu. [Uhleko.]
UMONGAMELI WEZWE: Somlomo, lungu elihloniphekile lePhalamende, uyazi ukuthi nami angilona ilungu laleNdlu. Nami ngizwa benzwabethi ukuthi ukhon alo mbiko osuxoxwa la ukuthi uzoxoxwa ngelinye ikomidi Angazi ukuthi uquketheni ngoba phela wenziwe yilungu laleNdlu...[Ubuwelewele] muphi lo? Yingakho nje ngithi into engaba wubuhlakani wukungajahi. Singaphangi umdaka linganile, silindele umbiko. Uzofika. Yilapho-ke siyokwazi ukuwuxoxa khona seneliseke, sithole amaqiniso namaphutha uma ekhona.
Ngiyabona-ke kodwa ukuthi abantu bayathanda ukuyikhuluma le ndaba. Anjalo-ke amanga, ayathandeka. [Uhleko.][Ihlombe.] Uma lo mbiko usufikile lapho uyofika khona kufanele uxoxwe ngendlela yomthetho wePhalamende eyoba yisivumelwano samaLungu ePhalamende, yilapho-ke niyothola amaqiniso ashoyo ukuthi ngempela ngempela kwenzekeni. Dedelani abaphenyayo baphenye bawulethe umbiko, nivumelane ukuthi nizowuxoxa kanjani, niwuxoxe bese niyathola enikufunayo. Inkinga nifuna ukwenza izinqumo nje. Kudala ninginqumela; kade nginizwa nasemaphapheni nikhuluma, ninginqumela ngapha nangapha. Hhayi bo! Lindani umbiko, mhlonishwa, uyeza! Usukhona uwuphethe uNgqongqoshe. Ngiyabonga.
Ms A M DREYER: Mr Speaker, given that in a democratic state it is unacceptable to spend public money on a President's private home ... [Interjections.] ... that more than R210 million of public money was spent for upgradings at the private home of President Zuma, including 31 new buildings, and given that the Minister of Public Works admitted that, most likely, irregularities occurred and tenders were inflated during the upgradings, will the President ensure that the Department of Public Works is refunded for the irregular expenditure of public funds at his private home before the end of the next financial year on 31 March 2014?
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, I am sure it is the duty of hon Members of Parliament to ask questions, even if the answers have been given, otherwise it would be said in their parties that they are not active, that they are not asking questions. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] I have just answered the question that the hon member is asking!
Firstly, I have said no house of the President was ever built by government. I said so at the beginning. I have repeated it.
Secondly, I have said that the report which will clarify all of this is coming. Why should I answer the question about whether the money will be paid back, as if she has now made the finding already, and therefore we have got to be refunding things? I am saying you will discover no house of the President was built with taxpayers' money.
Security departments said they needed to put security features in my houses that I built. Security features and houses are not one and the same thing, hon member. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members!
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: There are not 31 houses or homes built at my homestead. Wait for the report! Please. [Interjections.] [Applause.] Then you can have your time to talk and ask your questions. [Interjections.] I have answered this. Is there a soccer field in my yard? There is no soccer field in my yard. There is nothing of that nature. Wait for the report to explain the soccer field, as well. [Interjections.] There are people ... yes, not in my house, not in my homestead ... {Interjections.] Not in my homestead.
The SPEAKER: Order! Order!
The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Not in my homestead! [Interjections.] Wait for the report. That will help you a great deal, so that you can ask more intelligent questions. [Interjections.] [Applause.] Thank you, hon Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Order! [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: More tap-dancing and ...
The SPEAKER: Order!
Source: Unrevised transcript, Hansard
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