Transcript - follow up questions to Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe on the occasion of oral reply in the National Assembly

2 Nov 2011

Questions and answers

Honourable member Mazibuko: The Programme to Support Pro-Poor Policy Development (PSPPD) research facility has funded and commissioned papers into both youth unemployment and into the youth wage subsidy proposal. These are matters which are not only high on the programmes agenda but as the political head of the war on poverty campaign they are no doubt high on the Deputy President's agenda as well. However, the government continues to stall on the implementation on the much needed youth wage subsidy. Had the wage subsidy been implemented on the 1st of April in 2010 it could have benefitted almost 225 000 unemployed young people thus far. With every day that passes the delay in implementing the wage subsidy denies even more young South Africans the chance to move out of poverty and into meaningful environment. Mr Speaker, will the Deputy President tell us whether the government will implement the youth wage subsidy by the target date set by the National Treasury of 1 April 2012 and if not, what is it justification for denying hundreds and thousands more young South Africans access to work opportunities. I thank you.

Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe: Thank you very much Honourable Mazibuko and let me take this opportunity to congratulate you, my dear sister. The youth wage subsidy has been discussed at NEDLAC as you know NEDLAC is made up of four chambers. The reason for it is that we need buy-in - it is important that when it is implemented it should not be resisted and opposed by unions who were of the view that it would casualise labour and that the young people who would benefit from it, would end up being treated as though they are permanent employees as it were and that it would depress overall wages. It is that fear of competition by employed workers and we believe that through that discussion in NEDLAC consensus will be met. As I believe you know a number of accords have already been signed  at NEDLAC level with all these key stakeholders and we are quite positive that a positive outcome will be met out of those discussions. Thank you.

Honourable member: South Africa has suffered a 70% decline in foreign direct investment (FDI) during 2010 compared to 2009. During the same period in 2010 Angola increased their foreign direct investment significantly and attracted 20% of Africa's total foreign direct investment. This is according to research by the University of Johannesburg. In the same period other middle income States like Chile and Indonesia were ranked on 19th and 20th place respectively and South Africa was lagging behind at 128th in the world in 2010. Does the President agree that this is a serious problem and that so-called economic freedom marches by the African Congress Youth Movement adds to concerns about South Africa as a safe investment destination which ultimately leads to growing unemployment? And does he also agree that the best Pro-Poor policy is to create sustainable jobs for the 25% unemployed people in our country?

Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe: Thank you very much Honourable Member. Let me start with your second point. Yes I do agree that the creation of employment opportunities, permanent jobs actually, for the poor is the correct policy. With regards to loss of FDI and how we compare to Angola I think all the sceptics, those who think that we are through our pronouncements and actions driving away investors. I think that has been eloquently answered by the country assessment conducted by Walmart. Walmart has done a country assessment and it gives us a thumbs up that it actually wants to be in South Africa and that is where other investors ought to be. And I can't find a more eloquent response to all of these doubts and questions than the country assessment done by Walmart.

What it means that no other American country would have to do similar assessments because it has already been done, they will simply follow. That is why the Walmart investment here in South Africa is a very important step. The point is they have gone through everything, they did a thorough country assessment and they have been through the Competitions Tribunal and they got thumbs up, these are processes that are in place. The point I am making is that they are saying all investors must come to South African that is what I am saying. We are very happy that this is what they have done. Thank you.

[Mr N Singh asks the Deputy President:

(1) Whether he intends taking any steps to ensure that Ministers act on the recommendations and shortcomings that have been identified by the Auditor-General for each Minister's portfolio; if not, why not; if so, what steps;

(2) whether there are any timeframes for monitoring and evaluating the corrective action that is required; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details?]

Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe: As you are aware in terms of the Public Finance Management Act Directors-General of Departments as accounting officers are responsible for managing the finances. They are therefore responsible for addressing the shortcomings and implementing the recommendations identified in the Auditor General's reports. As Ministers are ultimately responsible for the overall performance of their departments they are expected to take appropriate steps to ensure that accounting officers act on the Auditor-General's recommendations. In order to strengthen the Performance Monitoring System the Presidency has put in place the following measures. The Director-General of the Presidency is the Chairperson of the Forum of South African Directors-General, FOSAD. With Cabinet approval FOSAD has started to monitor the implementation of key improvements to management and administration in the public service.

The Department of Performance Monitoring and Evaluation in the Presidency is facilitating this monitoring on behalf of FOSAD. As well as the Department of Monitoring and Evaluation which provides FOSAD Management Committee with regular reports on progress towards improving a number of key administrative problems. The aim of this monitoring is to increase the focus of accounting officers on addressing these matters and to provide Cabinet and the President with periodic reports on progress in this regard. The Department of Performance Monitoring and Evaluation is currently working with the Department of Public Service and Administration to revise the Performance Assessment System for accounting officers to increase the role of the Presidency and the officers of the Premier in this system. And to ensure that the managerial and administrative performance of a Department is a key factor in the performance assessment of the accounting officer of that department.

FOSAD started monitoring managerial and administrative performance issues 3 months ago. This will be an on-going process until managerial and administrative performance improves. The new Performance Assessment System for accounting officers is planned to start in 2013/14 financial year. In the meantime the existing Performance Assessment System for accounting officers will continue. Thank you.

Honourable member: Thank you very much Deputy President for the response. Sir, while I accept that the accounting responsibility of any department resides with the Director-General or the Head of the Department as we know it, I think it is very important for us as Members of Parliament to know that somebody is going to crack the whip when the Director-Generals do not perform their functions, because the Auditor-General's report on the national outcomes suggests that a number of departments are struggling to maintain sustainable controls within the financial environment. Honourable Speaker we have seen the Honourable Member of Home Affairs and the positive she had in cracking the whip in her Department and there has been a wonderful turnaround in the Department of Home Affairs. So I believe and I think we believe as the IFP that the proverbial buck stops with Members of the Executive. It is for them to ensure that the Heads of Departments do the kind of work that they are supposed to do. And that clean audits become something on which the Honourable Ministers are assessed in terms of the Performance Agreement. And I would like to know if the Honourable Deputy President can comment on that aspect.

Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe: Yes indeed I agree that the buck stops with the political head. However, the point I was clarifying is that it is the accounting officers who have the responsibility of ensuring that the recommendations and points made by the Auditor-General in his report are attended to and implemented. Because indeed when we think of Government administration of public service administration it is the DGs who are in charge. And that is why together with the senior managers they need all the support and indeed the political heads; political leadership ought to give them all the support and requisite support as well as direction. I agree with that.

Honourable member: Honourable Deputy President will you agree that the Ministers are the leaders in their ministries and therefore in their departments, and that they should always set an impeccable example how they run they own ministries. If so, is the fact that they book too often into luxurious hotels, maybe travel too much, maybe driving the cars they should not, is [that] not sending the wrong message to the Departments that the Ministries do not care, so why should we as Departments.

Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe: Yes I agree that indeed the as Ministers we are supposed to set a good example. But the accounting officers would not sign off or should not sign off on any instruction that is likely to get them into trouble. If they do so they should then see that the instruction should be in writing so that down the line they can have proof that indeed they came under pressure. Put the question differently as the President indicated the other day that, in a public debate that he has no control over renovations in his office. In positions of leaderships such as that of a President or a Minister we also have to submit to be managed. What I mean by this is that you know if I get into the car here and I know the destination and the driver turns in the opposite direction I can't give him instructions and say look turn this way because it is shorter, it will be quicker. Because down the line and you may say to me that you have the authority why don't you do it, it would have saved petrol and warranty of the car and so on. But the reality is that the way the system works is that we should not, not the point I am trying to illustrate is that if we get used to that, giving those kinds of instructions.

Down the line, tomorrow when somebody that I dislike intensely crosses the road and I say to them shoot him. So there must be no, I am trying to explain a principle that we must accept to be managed and those who manage us must have that authority so that we can account as well. So an accounting officer such as a DG should not accept unlawful instructions; yes this is the point I am making. So it is teamwork and we do say that however the buck stops with the political head we can't avoid taking responsibility for that. When the newspaper says so much money has been spent on flowers, I don't want the flowers myself, I think I can do with plastic flowers actually, I am just saying.

Honourable Dreyer: Mr Speaker the Public Service Commission recommends that senior managers who do not submit financial disclosures should be charged with misconduct, yet months after due date there has been no action. The Public Service Act states criminal charges must be laid for financial misdemeanours of R100 000 or more yet most officials found guilty of this offence only receive a written warning; perhaps this is why in one year fruitless and wasteful expenditure by national departments increased 200% and irregular expenditure rose from R13 billion to R21 billion. Mr Deputy President why do you allow this phenomenal failure of implementing the law on financial management in the civil service.

Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe: Indeed where the law is very specific and clear it should be implemented, there is no excuse for not following the law and therefore I would prefer no excuse for such delayers; in fact it is something that should happen on an urgent basis - there is no reason other than just inefficiency, really. Some people, once they are assessed and the report indicates that they have acted irregularly, actions should be instituted against them but of course we also have labour laws which prescribe procedures and so on. So the point is that it has to be followed procedurally and there is no excuse for any delays. Thank you.

Honourable Masuta: Deputy President central to the objectives of the ANC is an improvement in service delivery for the betterment of the lives of our people. Now clearly in the report that the Auditor-General has just released that Honourable Singh is alluding to, not only are we seeing the challenges that have been highlighted and some of which are seem to be persisting but there is some positive stories as well. And to cite an example is the Department of Home Affairs which has been withdrawn from ICU and placed as a shining example of how improvement can be achieved thanks to the current Minister of Home Affairs. Now Deputy President taking that as an example will government ensure that there are more positive stories such as those by ensuring that Ministers continue to play a leading role to ensure that departments which have persistent challenges begin to address them seriously so that... (Time is up)

Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe: I agree with the honourable speaker that indeed something that should be achieved a clean audit should be achieved by all ministries basically, thank you.

Speaker: Question number 11 has been removed from the question paper and the matter has been communicated to the member concerned. We now move on to question number 12 which has been asked by Honourable Mafulu. 

[What steps has the Government taken to unite South Africans in the fight against substance abuse by our youth, which robs them of their future?]

Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe: A significant part of government's programme in the fight against substance abuse is led by the Central Drug Authority. This is a statutory body made up of a number of government departments, non-governmental and community-based organisations, academics and substance abuse experts and has the responsibility to coordinate efforts to reduce the supply and demand for drugs and substances of abuse; strengthen efforts aimed at eliminating drug trafficking and related crimes; promote the integration of substance abuse issue into the mainstream of socio-economic development programmes; ensure appropriate interventions strategies through awareness raising, education, prevention, early intervention and treatment programmes; promote partnerships and the participation of all stakeholders at local and provincial levels in the fight against substance abuse. The objectives and plans of the Central Drug Authority are captured in a national drug master plan. Government departments involved include Arts and Culture, Correctional Services, Basic Education, Higher Education and Training, International Relations and Cooperation, Health, Home Affairs, Justice and Constitutional Development, Labour, Social Development, South African Police Service (SAPS), Sport and Recreation, Trade and Industry, Transport as well as the South African Revenue Service. Particular government departments are charged with drawing up and implementing operational plans referred to as mini drug master plans in line with their core functions.

Youth substance abuse has been identified as one of the key priorities in the drug master plan in recognising the critical situation of growing substance abuse in South Africa; Cabinet has set up an Interministerial-Committee on substance abuse, chaired by the Minister of Social Development. Eight Ministers and Deputy Ministers are part of this committee. youth substance abuse has been a specific focus of the IMC. Plans to reduce substance abuse which have taken into account local and international best practise have recently been adopted by Cabinet. Given the importance of obtaining wide stakeholder involvement in substance abuse, strategies and plans, the Department of Social Development and the Central Drug Authority hosted a Substance Abuse Summit in March 2011. This was attended by 750 stakeholders comprising of the Inter-ministerial Committee on substance abuse, the United Nations office on drugs and crime, the World Health Organisation, Parliament of South Africa, provincial executives, legislatures and substance abuse forums and local drug action committees, organised labour, the House of Traditional Leaders, faith based organisations, civil society organisations and youth structures. Government and other stakeholders signed a declaration committing to accelerated action to ensure the implementation of the resolutions adopted by this Summit. These resolutions have been incorporated into the main plans of the Interministerial-Committee and I thank you.

Speaker: The Honourable member who asked the question is not in the chamber but a follow up question will be taken.

Honourable member: The festive period is around the corner and I want to know can the government implement some of these steps especially the resolutions of the biannual substance abuse summit, can they implement it now to alert the youth and their parents about the dangers of substance abuse during this period since many see the festive period as a season to be merry.

Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe: Thank you very much. All the organisations which were participants at the March Summit have the obligation to implement the resolutions, government included and members of this house included. Thank you.

Honourable Lakota: Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable Deputy President, I think as a nation this problem of drugs is one that is lurking out from all sides. No lesser voice such as that of Mr Jackson Mthembu has joined and made a heartfelt appeal to our nation's people to stand up and fight in this battle because of what is also doing to his personal family. I would like to ask this question though, what is the Presidency's plan to convince the nation that it is determined to uproot this scourge when a senior Cabinet Minister's wife was recently convicted for drug trafficking. Had he declared the income from this trade because Ministers have to also declare what their family's income is and the proceeds of this drug trafficking have that been declared. What is government doing to ensure that Cabinet is clean of crime? (Time is up)

Unidentified speaker: The Honourable Lakota has just launched an unacceptable personal attack on another member of this House of which there is no basis and we would request him to withdraw.

Speaker: I will consult the council and come back with a ruling on that matter.

Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe: Thank you very much. The activities of the Honourable Minister's wife were obviously clearly disguised activities and that is why it took lots of crime intelligence activities to keep taps on her and to eventually nail her and the other drug partner in crimes. Now your question is, did the Minister declare income from this activity. The activity itself is not only unlawful, it is a criminal activity. So the Minister does not regard that danger employment, he is employed as a Minister and therefore not being partied such activity otherwise he would be behind bars. So I think in all fairness the answer must be no he did not declare that as income, obviously he was unaware, he was he was not implicated in any manner in the matter. The matter went through the courts and a determination was made that at no stage was he ever called in either as a witness or a partner in that crime which I wouldn't want to go that direction. I suppose it is sufficient to safely say that the likelihood is that you would not declare such income. Thank you.

Honourable member: Mr Deputy President in 2004 this Government closed down the Narcotics Bureau. And if I remember correctly it was then closed down by the now discredited Police Commissioner Jackie Selebi. And this resulted in Centres of Excellence being destroyed. The DA through our National Spokesperson Honourable Diane Kohler-Barnard and our MEC for Social Development in the Western Cape Mr Albert Fritz has repeatedly called for the re-establishment of these specialised units. When will the Deputy President reinstate these units? If not, why not and if so what steps are being taken to do so and what is the timeline thereof?

Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe: I am not in a position to give a clear answer on that on since I am not present at any discussions in Cabinet of the restructuring of the police. And therefore if the Honourable Member desires that the Narcotics Bureau should be re-established please make the proposal; I will communicate it to the relevant Minister for attention. My view is that all the law enforcement units that we have should be in the frontline of combating the spread and the peddling of narcotics. And that the real masterminds behind these activities should be nailed or brought to book and sentenced.

Honourable member: Honourable Deputy President do we know of any particular successful prevention campaigns anywhere in the world that we can or are drawing on? Will Government be prioritising relevant prevention campaigns in line with the recommendations by the Medical Research Council and will funding be made available for them?

Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe: Thank you very much Honourable Member. The Summit that I alluded to looked at very specific resolutions with regards to the fight against substance abuse. Now prevention means that we should ensure that there is no supply, we must cut off the supply pipes. We must also inspire young people to engage in friendlier activities which would also ensure that, even adults who are a bad example diminish in number. And promote sports for young people, make sport facilities available, in other words provide better examples to ensure that the majority of the people in communities, families inspire younger people not to veer into these activities of substance abuse. If we do that and eradicate poverty, it will give meaning to live for ordinary people; I think we will be able to achieve a drug free society. Thank you.

Issued by The Presidency, November 2 2011

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